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by MaxGanzII 1688 days ago
I think we may be talking about different PINs.

I am not talking about the PIN you would have to enter when starting Signal, to get into Signal.

I Googled a bit and found an approachable blog post from the time this all happened, here;

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2020/07/10/a-few-th...

This has refreshed my memory of events.

In short, Signal wanted to store what had been purely client-side information (contact lists, for example) on their server, but - in principle at least - in a form Signal could not access.

The PIN in question is used to provide access to that information.

> Server state comment aside, it seems your main complaint is about a pop-up PIN entry UI that can be opted out of?

The dialog to force the user to set the server-side PIN disabled the app. You either had to do it, or stop using Signal. There was no opt-out.

I had a look at the app now. I found the settings you mentioned. It's not clear to me from what I see there is this if an app-locking PIN, a SIM protection PIN, or a server-side state PIN, or all three rolled into one.

In any event, at the time it happened, the presented dialog was full-screen and could not be dimissed; even if there had been options to disable this (and there were not prior to the full-screen dialog - I looked, in an effort to dismiss the permanent partial-screen dialog) you could not get to them, because it was a full-screen dialog which you could not dismiss; you could not get to the app, and so could not get to settings.

The only option was to stop using Signal or provide a PIN so your client-side state could be stored server-side.

1 comments

Fair. And I think I know what you're referring to.

Yes, they do upload your contact list, but I believe there's a prompt at setup time that allows you to opt out? It might even be an OS-level prompt to the tune of "Signal would like to access your Contacts". Not 100% sure on that one as I haven't set up a brand new Signal installation in years.

It's done to help their user acquisition. It uploads your contacts to match against other contact lists and let you know who's on Signal. I recall seeing a blog post explaining how they are doing it in a fully encrypted way, possibly using Secure Enclave (? though I think the 2021 version of that would probably involve ZK proofs/homomorphic encryption of some kind, and I hope they put some time into that).

I don't recall ever having to set a PIN specifically for that. And besides, a 4-6 digit PIN would be a terribly insecure way to "encrypt" anything server-side :) But yes, that would be a shame if it were the case.

> It's done to help their user acquisition. It uploads your contacts to match against other contact lists and let you know who's on Signal.

I may be wrong, but I think this functionality existed prior to the server-side state effort. I recall when people in my contact list joined Signal, I was notified.

However, these days I do not keep contacts in the phone contact list. It's too big and juicy a target.

> And besides, a 4-6 digit PIN would be a terribly insecure way to "encrypt" anything server-side :)

Very much so. That does seem odd.