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by headphoneswater 1698 days ago
It's hard to argue with results we haven't experianced any terrorist attacks on that scale since it was put into law.

Maybe my freedom is being infinged somehow but I haven't noticed it

7 comments

Homer : Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job.

Lisa : That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer : Thank you, sweetie.

Lisa : Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.

Homer : Uh-huh, and how does it work?

Lisa : It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.

Homer : I see.

Lisa : But you don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer : Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw

To the OP’s defence, there has been numerous, large scale murderous terrorist attacks in Europe over the same period, so it’s not like if there was no bear in sight.

Now you can debate whether it is the result of good policing or of a much smaller muslim immigration or some other factor.

The USA didn’t have any terror attacks on that scale before 9/11 either.
Imagine you were an Iraqi minding your own business and 100x more of your friends and family were killed by bombs from a foreign attack.
Was gonna reply w/ something like this but we did have a few... Germans invaded near the statue of liberty and blew shit up (ww1).... and Pearl Harbor...those were technically acts of war, but amounts to the same, and the sinking of the Luscitania...

But, for the most part America has been safe before and after the one isolated event of 9/11 and there's no proof that anything we've done since has made us safer (likely it's had the opposite effect by stirring up animosity).

no proof but I thought increased airport security must have caught some stuff.
If the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 would have been more successful, it could have killed thousands of people - the bomb was intended to topple Tower 1 into Tower 2, bringing both down.[1] Luckily, it only ended up killing 6 and injuring 1000.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombin...

Pretty sure it's been admitted that many programs viable because of the Patriot Act have stopped absolutely zero terrorist attacks and have indeed completely infringed upon your freedoms.

https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illeg...

That's hard to believe, we essentialy won the war on terror

here's a real report not a political charged blog: https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_...

> we essentialy won the war on terror

Are you serious? The US looks terribly weak against terror because the fear alone makes them infringe on civil liberties on a massive and broad scale.

Really?

Last I saw we just surrendered to the Taliban, freed 5000 of them including the current leader, the insurgency is now the de-facto government of Afghanistan, and we recently had a high profile journalist hacked to pieces with a hand saw in an embassy and didn't do a damn thing about it.

How is the war on terror "essentially won" in your eyes?

Also, for your bit about being hard to believe - the agency reported it themselves, so you're essentially saying you believe nothing except that which conforms to your existing world view. Not sure what to say about that.

Plenty of other people have responded to this comment, I don't have much to add except that you're literally the first person I've ever heard even suggest this.
You should read literally anything from the last 15 years, especially from rights groups. EFF, ACLU, watchdogs, thinktanks.

If you only respect government sources then the GAO has plenty of gems on this topic.

I’ll make a separate comment for my other thoughts

ACLU has gone to crap in the last few years unfortunately. It's been fully co-opted by the democrats for many years. Just like the SPLC, ADL etc. Look at where vast majority of their donations come from.

1. ACLU actively gives their data to Facebook:

https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d43...

https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-thi...

2. ACLU claims Second Amendment is Racist

> "Racism is foundational to the Second Amendment and its inclusion in the Bill of Rights." https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074

Fun fact: Vermont ratified the individual right to gun ownership and the abolishing of slavery in their State Constitution at the same time in 1777. The second amendment actually helped defeat racism and the only thing racist about it is the disproportionate infringement against minorities.

> Vermont’s Declaration of Rights of 1777 set forth the following fundamental rights and abolished slavery: That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent, and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. Therefore, no male person, born in this country, or brought from over sea, ought to be holden by law, to serve any person, as a servant, slave, or apprentice, after he arrives to the age of twenty-one years; nor female, in like manner, after she arrives to the age of eighteen years.

> Vt. Constitution, Art. I, § 1 (1777). See Zilversmit at 116. The Vermont Declaration also provided: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State . . . .” Id., § 15.

3. ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain...

4. ACLU's most famous lawyer calls JK Rowling and Abigail Shrier "white supremacists" without any proof whatsoever:

https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936...

The same lawyer has also called for banning of Abigail Shrier's book.

5. Last year, they warned against using COVID-19 passport systems as they endanger privacy rights by creating a new surveillance infrastructure to collect health data which has the potential of mission creep to expand into other areas such as conditioning travel or access to housing. Such status may be stored with other personal details, such as travel, employment, or housing information, heightening the intrusiveness of an immunity passport system. They recommended focussing on the implementation of widespread, free, and quick testing, without creating a new privacy-invasive infrastructure that threatens everyone’s rights.

https://archive.is/5KrP8

But now, ACLU claims ‘Vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties’:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-...

The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics. Now, they have completely reversed its views, arguing vaccine mandates help civil liberties and bodily autonomy "is not absolute."

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-den...

How do you believe we have won the war on terror?

We have very visible and emboldened domestic terror groups despite whatever state preemptive capabilities the Patriot Act brought in

And for Islamic extremists, the US mainland was barely ever the target. It just remains an eligible target due to an interpretation of jihad as long as we are seen as an invader in traditionally islamic lands.

Al Queda has more extreme offshoots which have destabilized regions including the effects of so many refugees sent all over the mediterranean

Strict Shariah from “not terrorist groups” are back in force despite 20 years of US wasting its resources and dividing itself over the budget overruns. This includes the extreme interpretation of Jihad that endangers US and all NATO countries.

Can you tell me more about your influences? Like how is your world, your newsfeeds, thrown you into such a niche where you can only regurgitate a 17-year old DOJ report to support it and believe it

> we won the war on terror

Apart of the zombie outbreak at January trying to hang the vice president in the damned Capitol of the USA all looks fine, yep

> we essentialy won the war on terror

Are you from Afghanistan by any chance? Or are you trolling way too hard?

I have some astrological services to sell you
Boston Marathon bombing.

San Bernadino shootings.

The Boston Marathon bombing is another example of the US intelligence community knowing about the danger. The Russians rang us up and said "hey these two traveled to and from a known terrorist training camp", and everyone just shrugged.

Day-of, the bomb sniffing dogs left the finish line area when the VIPs did.

Not long after, the bombers set up their bombs...

speaking of shooting, not a single thing changed because no evident the sugested changes would help
Didn’t someone in CIA claim they had all the data that could uncover the attack plan, just didn’t have enough analysts for that to have happened?

If that is true then increasing surveillance would not change a thing, at the end data collected will just sit there untouched, or waiting to be abused.

Bush was warned over a month before the attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike...
My favorite part was when he knee-jerk reacted to the towers being bombed by invading 2 countries that we knew had nothing to do with it.
Still waiting on Saudi Arabia invasion (not that I believe that would be the proper answer either, but still).
Saudi Arabia is an ally, an a bussiness partner
You misspelled Iran.

Trump gave it a shot by assassinating Soleimani, the Iranians just didn't retaliate enough to provide justification.

Never let a crisis go to waste for strategical ambitions I guess.
Correlation does not imply causation...