[ashtonbaker]

Can I ask you what your path into jazz has been like?

I've been playing myself for like 25 years, classically trained for my whole childhood. I've always enjoyed improvisation and love jazz piano so much, but I've found it really hard to build from my very limited improv vocabulary into "serious" jazz, and I've had a hard time learning how to learn jazz, if that makes sense.

[yesenadam]

My unasked for 2c: (Jazz pianist here, did classical piano from very young, then started jazz at about 12)

- listen a lot to the greats and the players you love. The most common problem I see in students is them not listening to much/any jazz and expecting to be able to sound good.

- transcribe a lot, solos you love but dont know what they're doing. Solos on any instrument. Then play them. (If you can play them without transcribing them, great.)

[wazoox]

It's difficult to give advice in that matter without first hearing you giving a try at improvisation to check where you're starting from. I've started learning jazz at 16 (50 now) and you never cease to learn (obviously), but I can say that obviously different people learn in different ways.

Basically I'd say there are 3 parts in learning improvisation: the theoretical part (which is already a complex one because there are several possible theoretical approaches to jazz improvisation), the imitation part (learn and play back existing phrases, or better complete solos from the masters), the by-ear / singing part (the toughest one that most actually don't reach, at least reliably).

Don't forget that there is definitely a large social part in jazz improvisation; I'd rate my improvisation ability as uninteresting most of the time; I can get "in the zone" accidentally by myself, but more often it's a band thing: playing with the right people often enough and long enough to get together in "the zone". Yes, that's exactly the same zone as the programming one; you're lost in the music, feeling what's coming next and what notes should be played by whom (there only comes your technical ability in the picture) without thinking about it.

In my personal case, a long practice of classical piano hampered my early capability at improvisation for a long time and I needed the crutch of theory, and to intellectualize the process. Some blessed people "ear" the right notes without needing any justification "why" they are the right ones.

When you've got a long practice of your instrument, the difficulty is to free yourself from the reassuring but useless knowledge and habits you have that bring you to play this scale or this phrase because it's "in your fingers". The best way to reach that point is to have hundreds of ready phrases in all tones "in your fingers", and then try to forget them and listen to the music. Hopefully, you'll feel what goes where, like an unrolling, animated puzzle, or a Tetris game.

Personally I've found Kent Hewitt's advice to be very useful, I think it may help a lot of people. What's great in his playing is that he keeps it very simple, but always richly melodic. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdmjw5sm9Kn83TB_rA_QBCw

Another piece of advice I can give you is to learn to recognize chords and all the different ways they're built (by stacking thirds or fourths, etc) and how they come in succession (the usual II V I VI and friends) to get a better feel of what comes here or there.

[MrGando]

This is great advice. And I completely relate, after two years of working on Jazz (one pretty seriously), I can say that I feel like I'm being born again as a Pianist. It's extremely challenging and for me, all the classical luggage that I carry has made some things harder (swing, articulation).

My biggest leap in jazz so far, was to stop thinking about chord-scale relations and just focusing on chord-tones and extensions to outline the harmony of a piece, and approach notes to connect them.

I listen to a ton of jazz (nothing else but Jazz for a while). I've been transcribing Charlie Parker for a whole year, really working on his phrasing, heads, articulation, getting deep.

Disclaimer, I still think I'm terrible. My goal is to be somewhere less terrible in a couple more years... but I know I won't feel like that when I get there :D

PS: Get a great teacher, that's the biggest thing you can do to help yourself. Crazy good cats available for lessons these days.

[wazoox]

Serendipity stroke with this great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEdtUOGCCnU

[ashtonbaker]

Good stuff, and thanks for your comment. This part clicks with me:

> When you've got a long practice of your instrument, the difficulty is to free yourself from the reassuring but useless knowledge and habits you have that bring you to play this scale or this phrase because it's "in your fingers". The best way to reach that point is to have hundreds of ready phrases in all tones "in your fingers", and then try to forget them and listen to the music. Hopefully, you'll feel what goes where, like an unrolling, animated puzzle, or a Tetris game.

[objclxt]

If you are classically trained I highly recommend Mark Levine’s book[1]. It digs into the theory of jazz, alongside improvisation. It does assume a working knowledge of basic theory, so not so great for those starting from scratch.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Piano-Book-Mark-Levine/dp/096147...

[navbaker]

Joining an online community like Learn Jazz Standards really helps. You can work through exercises and lessons at your own pace, plus you have others who can give you constructive feedback. I’m a guitar player and joining a similar site, Fret Dojo, has pushed me way beyond where I would have gotten on my own.