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by MrGando 1691 days ago
There's a specific thing I always remember about this book, which is that the author recommends the "thumb over" technique for scales. I would never, ever suggest a beginner to approach scales like that. Thumb rotation is super important to absorb and master. Of course, when you go for fast scales you do a "thumb over" which is not really that, but instead of the thumb rotation, you reposition your whole hand using your arm to keep going upwards (from reading the book, it feels like the author doesn't understand that, because he probably never really went through that process... which takes many many years of piano playing).

I clearly remember the first time I went through the book, being a bit shocked when I read this particular take.
2 comments
revolvingocelot 1691 days ago
>Of course, when you go for fast scales you do a "thumb over" which is not really that, but instead of the thumb rotation, you reposition your whole hand using your arm to keep going upwards

To belabour this point for non-pianists, the parent is describing what "thumb over" really is: a sort of physical consequence of playing a fast ascending arpeggio/scale. It isn't an alternative to "thumb under" so much as a good-faith approximation of it at speed. "Practicing" "thumb over", as in this YouTube video [0], would likely threaten the mapping of fingers to keys in a newer player. It's not wrong to acknowledge its existence, but IMO it's properly conceived of as a skill that develops as a consequence of playing normally (though quickly), not an alternative to it.

Because (and in spite of) the fact that he doesn't play piano, his observations on "thumb over" are interesting, but unless you're already aware of the true nature of "thumb over" his authoritative tone will lead you astray in terms of conceptual categorization.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLTbURVEEO4

[1] https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io/chapte...

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revolvingocelot 1689 days ago
...a fast ascending arpeggio/scale with the right hand, or a fast descending arpeggio/scale with the left hand, to be more precise
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rossjudson 1691 days ago
Perhaps you should re-read. On thumb-over and thumb-under (TO, TU):

"Both methods are required to play the scale but each is needed under different circumstances; TO is needed for fast, difficult passages and TU is useful for slow, legato passages, or when notes need to be held while playing other notes."

"Beginners should be taught TU first because it is needed for slow passages and takes longer to learn. The TO method should be taught as soon as faster scales are needed, within the first two years of lessons."

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MrGando 1691 days ago
It's both the way the technique is described and the name given to it "thumb over" that are unclear and misleading. I know the technique, and in my years of practice (semi-pro) I've never seen it described anything like that. It doesn't even have a "name" per-se, because you learn to play the piano with your whole body, so it becomes a natural thing that you just have to do to get that speed. And by the way, you can still use it when playing slow, if you want to obtain a certain "tone" or "sound".
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packjaddison 1691 days ago
In my head, after 'thumb-under', I think of 'skips' and 'leaps' depending on distance for whole-hand repositioning, which is descriptively accurate for fingering on the piano, guitar, and violin (etc.). Though, for the novice I could see how conceptualizing a movement this way could interfere with legato technique, as it encourages more discrete chunking than does the 'unbroken' thumb-under during a run. Does that nomenclature match your conceptualization at all?
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