[thegrimmest]

I don't think any quotes are required around the research performed by Rushton & Jensen (2010)[1] and others that they build on. Doesn't it seem perfectly plausible that, much like other physical characteristics (height, body composition, heat tolerance, etc.) the meat in our skulls also varies between ethnic groups? Shouldn't this be researched and investigated like every other observation?

Once you start studying groups by linguistic origin (not "race") things become much clearer since people historically didn't really move around that much, and genetic markers are quite visible (a la 23andMe). I don't think you need to be a Nazi or a troll to be interested in any of this.

1. https://openpsychologyjournal.com/contents/volumes/V3/TOPSYJ...

[AnthonyMouse]

You're talking about the differences in averages. But that's meaningless. If the median Asian man is 5'8" and the median European man is 5'9" (or whatever the numbers are), this tells you nothing about any individual Asian or European males, because like 40% of Asian males will still be above the European median and half of Europeans will be below it.

And it's a completely arbitrary line. If Swedes are on average taller than Austrians, are they different "races" then? It's balderdash. There are genes that affect height and whatever else, but they're widely distributed throughout all "races."

[thegrimmest]

It tells you a whole lot about the composition of either end of the bell curve. It means that in a given population the shortest people are much more likely to be, say, Taiwanese (average aheight 5'3"), and the tallest Dutch (average height 6'½").

Edit: To your point about group taxonomy, usually precision is only available to a level where genetic markers are present and distinct. This in turn comes from groups not interbreeding. For instance, using 23andMe's taxonomy, Sweden belongs to the "Scandinavian" group and Austria belongs to the "French & German" group:

https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212169298...

[AnthonyMouse]

There are two adult brothers somewhere in New York City. They have both of the same parents. One of them is 5'3" and the other one is 6'½". What's the probability that one of them is Dutch and the other one is Taiwanese? If your answer wasn't zero I would like to see your work.

[thegrimmest]

If they are brothers then I suppose they could be mixed Taiwanese-Dutch. But that really isn't the point is it? I'm talking about trends in populations. It's an answer to the question of "Why do we see different representation of these groups on the height spectrum?", not "Explain the difference between these two individuals".

Edit: Also to assert that, given two random people on opposite ends of the height spectrum, it's much more likely that they are distantly related than closely related (controlling for sex) because (controlling for nutrition) height is a heritable trait.

[AnthonyMouse]

> It's an answer to the question of "Why do we see different representation of these groups on the height spectrum?"

But we already know that, by and large. It's genetics. And the thing we know about genes is that they align very poorly with "races".

It's like grouping animals by color. Then you discover that brown animals are bigger than red animals, because bears are brown and bears are big whereas cardinals are red and cardinals are small. But sparrows are brown. Using the logic of "race" we put the sparrows in the same category as the brown bears. The black bears go in with the black housecats. The red housecats are with the cardinals.

The fact that you can find statistically significant differences between the color groupings doesn't mean you're not doing something preposterous.

[DeathArrow]

>But we already know that, by and large. It's genetics. And the thing we know about genes is that they align very poorly with "races".

What about "ethnic groups"? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_peoples

>It's like grouping animals by color. Then you discover that brown animals are bigger than red animals, because bears are brown and bears are big whereas cardinals are red and cardinals are small.

Are the grizzlies the same with pandas?

[thegrimmest]

But there are groupings of people by genetic markers which correlate to linguistic/cultural origin. These aren't "races" per se but they are a valid and interesting taxonomy of people. And unsurprisingly given they are determined by genetic distance, these groups tend to have a more homogenous physical appearance. When we're talking about IQ, asking "why is does it differ across identifiable groups of people?" seems to be a very controversial question to ask or attempt to answer, often getting you lumped in with the Nazis, which was my original point.

[DeathArrow]

And there are two trees with the same height. From different species. One makes fruits, one doesn't.

And there are two trees with different height from the same species. Both make the same kind of fruits.

[DeathArrow]

>You're talking about the differences in averages. But that's meaningless. If the median Asian man is 5'8" and the median European man is 5'9" (or whatever the numbers are), this tells you nothing about any individual Asian or European males, because like 40% of Asian males will still be above the European median and half of Europeans will be below it.

Valable also for German Shepherd and Golden Retriever.

>If Swedes are on average taller than Austrians, are they different "races" then?

But Swedes can be still considered a different ethnic group than Austrians. Does the exact terminology matters? Various groups of people have both differences and also things in common. So what?