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by alfiedotwtf 1693 days ago
> We always reinforce that the way we do things (in this case, FP), is The One, True Way

Just curious... have you played with functional languages before? It may feel like snobbery to you, but once you start thinking functionaly, it really does feel like you're painting a house with rollers and a spray gun rather than a wet noodle.
1 comments
ChrisMarshallNY 1693 days ago
How many Apple apps have you delivered, and how many of those were written in a functional language (Swift can act as a functional language, but it is not a "pure" one.)?

Seriously. We all have our specialties. It is, indeed, "snobbery," when we rubbish the experience and expertise of folks that choose different paths. I won't rubbish some of the truly marvelous stuff I see, coming from people that think what I do is "quaint." It would be nice if the favor of respect were returned.

Delivering ship software is quite valuable; especially at the Quality and Usability bar that I set for myself. I suspect that you may not be aware of the Discipline, creativity, patience, and just plain old-fashioned Hard Work that goes into moving a piece of software out of the "toy" arena, and into the "ship" arena. The difference in project lifecycle times is quite sobering.

I can write a fairly full-featured app, in a couple of days, but it takes months to make one that I consider "ship-worthy," and I'm really at the top of my game, in my sandbox.

I have been delivering ship software for my entire adult life. I know that it isn't world-changing, prize-winning, theoretical marvels, but it has had direct and meaningful impact on thousands of lives.

I really appreciate it when the work of theorists makes it to my level. The Swift language is an object example. I really like it, and I know that one of the big reasons is because they cribbed from the FP workbook.

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alfiedotwtf 1693 days ago
I think you're taking my comment too personally. I'm not attacking what you're saying. I completely understand where you're coming from, and that's from a Perl developer of 13 years.

But what I'm trying to say is that this isn't about quantity shipped or how many users you have made happy - what I'm trying to convey is a measure of programming artistry and helping you see and maybe appreciate it.

Maybe a better analogy - I understand you like Rock music and that it's the only thing you play in your car, you grew up with it and it's all your friends ever talk about... but maybe if you looked at Jazz, you may be able to enjoy it as well.

... sorry if it came out as condescending, that wasn't my intention.

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ChrisMarshallNY 1693 days ago
Yah, you’re right. I am sensitive. Comes from being primarily self-taught, and spending a lifetime, staring up noses.

I also have problems with “purism,” when it comes to tools and techniques. Purism, by definition, eschews orthogonal viewpoints, and I feel that’s quite destructive. I also feel that it is anti-intellectual. One thing I’ve learned, over the years, is that I was definitely right, yesterday, but I’m definitely wrong, today. Happens regularly, and that can get tiresome (but it’s unavoidable -part of the price I pay, for a career in tech).

I really like the ideas behind FP. It’s just that it is not a practical tool, for me to use in anything close to pure form, in the drive towards realizing my goals. I do not have the luxury of purism. I’ve always had to play in someone else’s sandbox, and by their rules. Believe it or not, that can be quite exhilarating.

A house framer uses drills, saws, and nailguns. They can’t make these tools, but they use them, to do what the people that designed those tools, cannot do.

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