[ho_schi]

It is a success for the European Union. Not for the Europeans! I'm vaccinated and prefer to be around vaccinated people. Because of health? Yes. But also because of the mindset of people. But why is it not a success for Europeans? We had super easy travel before Covid - no borders - free settlement, travel and work. You've just carry your ID with you.

Regarding the stolen keys? I'm afraid similar things will happen again and again. At least the apps in Germany feel to work okay, also autonomous and offline. But relying blindly more on digitization (technology) will make things prone to errors. How many days since a BIG IT company failed hard?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/hackers-somehow-got-their-root... (english)

Six! Okay. But it is only Microsoft? The others won't fail? Did you said Facebook? How many days since Facebook accidentally removed itself entirely from the internet? We don't need more digitization - we need a lot better computing and not more of it.

[hagbard_c]

> I'm vaccinated and prefer to be around vaccinated people. Because of health? Yes. But also because of the mindset of people

- I'm well-trained and prefer to be around well-trained people

- I'm classically educated and prefer to be around classically educated people

- I'm an atheist and prefer to be around atheists

- I'm Christian and prefer to be around Christians

- I'm Hindu and prefer to be around Hindus

- I'm Muslim and prefer to be around Muslims

- I'm vegetarian and prefer to be around vegetarians

- I'm anarchist and prefer to be around anarchists

- I'm <category> and prefer to be around <category>

Notice the segregated society this attitude creates? Now look in some history books - real ones, not political propaganda pieces - and see how this type of us-versus-them society tends to end up.

I'm vaccinated and I don't give a damn about whether people around me are vaccinated or not. I'm atheist and like to mingle with Christians, Hindus, Muslims and what have you. I'm left-handed and still willing to shake your hand (remember that, shaking hands?). I'm open to the world, not just to my own in-group. I might not agree with many of the doctrines of those Muslims nor some of those Christians or Hindus, I might sometimes be annoyed at how utensils are tailored to right-handed people but I'm not going to segregate myself into an atheist, left-handed, classically educated, ... group just because of such trivial quibbles.

Also, SARS2 is not a big threat to vaccinated people. Why the hysteria? Did you act this way during one of the influenza pandemics? If not, then why treat this disease differently?

[licebmi__at__]

> Notice the segregated society this attitude creates? Now look in some history books - real ones, not political propaganda pieces - and see how this type of us-versus-them society tends to end up.

Is this supposed to be a real argument? I mean, should we go hug ebola patients because if not, bam facism!

[Strom]

Willing to mingle with people very different from yourself is a very new phenomenon and certainly not widespread. It's nice that you can look past the differences.

> SARS2 is not a big threat to vaccinated people. Why the hysteria?

Even if we assume that it's not a threat to the vaccinated, it is still very much a threat to the non-vaccinated. All sorts of pandemic measures are designed to help society as a whole, not just the individual obeying the rules.

[hagbard_c]

> Even if we assume that it's not a threat to the vaccinated, it is still very much a threat to the non-vaccinated

...which is irrelevant in the context of this discussion which centres around a vaccinated person preferring to avoid unvaccinated people.

It is strange how the vaccinated seem to be the ones most scared of the disease while the unvaccinated just get on with their lives. Many of those unvaccinated people have had SARS2 and as such have better immunity than any vaccine can give them, even more are in the age brackets where SARS2 is no serious threat. Most will have a full set of childhood vaccinations but are wary of these new vaccines which do not have a long safety record like the aforementioned childhood vaccines. A small group will be opposed to any and all vaccines, even though many if not most of them will have gotten vaccinated as children. For some reason the latter group is used as a marker for all unvaccinated people but the same is - fortunately - not true for the vaccinated group or I would be considered like one scared of his own shadow, not being able to cope with any risk now matter how small. It should not be true for the unvaccinated either but alas, that ship has sailed.

[Strom]

It is not irrelevant. Once again, it's about more than individual gains, it's about group gains. A vaccinated person can still carry the virus even if they themselves are relatively fine. Not wanting to be in contact with higher risk people (the unvaccinated) helps prevent the spread of the virus.

> It is strange how the vaccinated seem to be the ones most scared of the disease while the unvaccinated just get on with their lives.

I don't see how that is strange at all. Clearly the vaccinated people are much more likely to consider the virus to be a serious threat as compared to the unvaccinated who tend to brush it off as either a minor annoyance or straight up fake propaganda.

This can be seen in all sorts of other areas. It's the climate scientists who are most scared of climate change, it's the cryptographers who are most scared of broken cryptography, it's the educated who are most scared of drinking from the same river the village pees in.