[aqzman]

I say this having never driven a Tesla, but are they really suitable rental cars? My understanding is that Tesla vehicles differ quite a bit from regular ICE vehicles, to the point that there's a bit of a learning curve to operating the car.

I'd be interested to hear from a Tesla owner on this. Maybe it's a non-issue.

[YPPH]

>My understanding is that Tesla vehicles differ quite a bit from regular ICE vehicles, to the point that there's a bit of a learning curve to operating the car.

>I'd be interested to hear from a Tesla owner on this

Not a Tesla owner, but I did take one for a 30 minute test drive. There wasn't really any learning curve except for that when you let your foot off the accelerator (gas?) pedal, the regenerative braking kicks in, and you start slowing down very quickly. I didn't touch the brake pedal for the whole drive. Got used to it in a few minutes.

The hardest thing for me was the cruise control. Only a subset of autopilot features were enabled and I found it a bit difficult to operate.

[hn_throwaway_99]

Tesla used to have "Standard" and "Low" settings for how strong the regenerative braking is, but just found an article that says they removed the low option, which would be a bummer in my opinion.

[snek_case]

It's way more energy efficient if you can learn to drive with regenerative braking. Otherwise you're just wasting energy as heat with your brake pads.

[simfree]

Coasting is way more efficient than regenerative braking slowing your roll, causing you to need to accelerate again.

Hence why many non-car electrified rides disable Regen braking in Eco mode when your not accelerating or braking as keeping that mechanical energy & momentum is much more efficient than paying the conversion penalty to turn it back into electricity.

[cbo100]

As far as I can tell, from the somewhat minimal GUI Tesla gives you, and the general feeling while driving...

You can "coast" with regen on, you just need to balance the accelerator at the point where you aren't adding power, but the car isn't taking power away.

You won't see any green or black on the power usage bar.

Coming down long mountain roads, it's somewhat easier than coasting in an ICE and having to continually shift down gears or ride the brakes (which is obviously bad).

[caf]

This is correct. You coast by feathering the accelerator.

[vel0city]

If you his the accelerator steady, you can easily keep a pretty constant speed. It's not like you have to either be slamming on the accelerator or completely off the accelerator, you can keep it constant and hold a speed. I really prefer single pedal as with just the single pedal I get far more control of my speed than if I had to switch between two pedals. Want to slow down a little? Just ease up a little. Want to go faster? Just ease a bit more on.

I have not seen coasting modes to be more efficient than single pedal on my own electric car.

[yurishimo]

Oh my, this reminds me of a Lyft I got home from the airport once. The driver didn't know how to hold the throttle steady and was constantly on and off the gas for the entire 15 mile drive back home on the interstate. I was nauseous and nearly puking by the time I got home, even sitting in the front passenger seat because I'm already prone to motion sickness.

I'm hoping their car was actually broken in some way, because I'm assuming they had owned a license for decades at that point.

However, I'm pessimistic and curious if some people just learn to drive with the constant coasting on and off the throttle? Maybe it's an international thing? I'm not sure but I will never forget that ride!

[mrfusion]

My exact thoughts but people seem to save energy by turning up the regen? I don’t get it.

[01100011]

Regen braking is one of the best features of an EV. I wish I could figure out how to make my Bolt default to 'one pedal' mode. I use the brakes less than 10% of normal now, and it helps me leave more space because I want to maximize the energy return by slowing more slowly.

[iggldiggl]

It depends on the manufacturer, but some cars allow a coasting mode for when the throttle pedal is released and do brake blending for the brake pedal, which prioritises regen and only adds the hydraulic brakes when the regen brake force isn't enough.

[mywittyname]

Even then, engine braking isn't exactly a foreign concept in the ICE world. Lots of vehicles have a mode or gear option that enables engine braking.

[YPPH]

That's true. Although I own a manual transmission car and it was noticeably more pronounced than the engine braking I experience when downshifting.

[rkuykendall-com]

This is unfortunate to hear. My least favorite thing about automatic cars is that the pedals don't increase and decrease the momentum of the car. Instead, the car slowly moves at all times unless the brakes are hit, and the "gas" is treated as more of a hint system for if the car should speed up or slow down.

[xiphias2]

As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one. I'd say it's much better for renting than buying, as I know how I would use it beforehand.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one.

Me too. I actually looked into that a few months ago. In Boston Massachusetts, there is this place: https://www.teslarents.com/

But we were going to San Francisco not Boston, and there was nothing that I could google up. With the exception of Oslo, Norway; I've never seen so many Teslas as I did in the Bay area, but it seemed really hard to rent one for a few days.

Maybe by the next time that I'm there a Tesla 3 will be standard at Hertz, but in 2021 you'll be lucky to get a Nissan. The competence and availability of even that, was low.

[bkev]

Try Turo. There tend to be quite a few Teslas there. https://turo.com/

[jlev]

I rented a Tesla on Turo a few years ago, it was a blast to drive.

It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend renting one.

[throwbigdata]

Just don’t try to rollback the odometer.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

I'm not sure that I "get" Turo. this is ... Airbnb for cars?

In any case, I don't think it would have worked for us, we handed the car back days later, in a different city. Which is fine for Hertz, but probably not for a Turo "host"?

It's likely that by the next time we're there, things will be different.

[FireBeyond]

Turo is a huge market for laundering cash.

In my area there are multiple Chrysler 300Cs that are "available" to rent for $600/day.

Except they're not available. They're actively being rented for weeks on end.

Would be a great plan if you were a dealer. Have one of your customers rent your car for $600/day (no legit customer will pay that for a 300C), and you launder cash. Best part is you don't even need to actually rent out your car - they're not going to complain that they didn't get a car, because they never needed it.

[hunter2_]

Yes, like airbnb. The host delivers and retrieves the vehicle within whatever operating radius they want to offer, so two cities is very unlikely. However, I think there is some kind of variable delivery fee, so as long as you want to pay that and get the owner to agree to set a gigantic radius, it might work.

https://support.turo.com/hc/en-us/articles/203991040-Choosin... says:

> You’re not able to set one location for pickup and a different location for drop off when you book your trip. But once the trip is booked, you can request to change your delivery pickup or drop off location. Once the trip is in progress you can still request to change the drop off location. The new location must be one where the host already offers delivery, or it must be within their custom delivery radius.

[akmarinov]

In what sense? They’re quite a bit quicker than ICE cars and regeneration is something you need to get used to, but nothing that’s radically different.

With these the big issue would be charging them - people might not know not to go to a gas station.

Also wonder how the “full tank” policy will work with EVs where ideally you want to hover around 80%

Where they might not be suitable rental cars is the reliability. There are some horror stories where people wait 6+ months for their cars to be fixed, based on parts availability, but Hertz probably has some service requirements built in the contract.

[nrjames]

If they are ordering 100k of them, there's a chance Hertz gets a customized version of the software the specifically directs people to Superchargers and/or has some type of instructional flow they have to go through before they can drive.

[gruez]

>Also wonder how the “full tank” policy will work with EVs where ideally you want to hover around 80%

I thought for electric cars, that's already baked in? in other words, the car displays 100% and stops charging, but the battery is actually 80% charged. Also, I think for electric cars, they'll waive the "full tank" requirement or charge you a reasonable amount to make up the difference (cost of electricity plus a small markup). I sure as hell don't want to spend 30 minutes at a charging station the morning of my flight.

[akmarinov]

Nope, you can configure it, at least on Teslas. There's a slider you can adjust to tell the car how much it should charge to, so that with daily driving you usually charge to 80%, but if you're going on a roadtrip and want 100% - you can do 100%.

[ricardobeat]

With the new LFP batteries the recommended charge level is always 100%.

[blendergeek]

The new LFP batteries are still a future thing here in the USA for Tesla.

[selectodude]

Not anymore. And definitely not by the time Hertz actually takes delivery of these things.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte...

[DarmokJalad1701]

Hertz presumably bought the SR+ trim, which is all going to be LFP batteries going forwarding including in the US

[caf]

Someone found Hertz's updated Terms & Conditions. tl;dr you are expected to return the car with at least 10% charge.

TESLA

These Electric Vehicle Rental Terms (“Rental Terms”) are between The Hertz Corporation (“Hertz” or “us”) and You and apply to a rental of an electric vehicle (“EV”) from Hertz. An EV is defined as a vehicle that exclusively uses battery power rather than gasoline or diesel fuel. These Electric Vehicle Rental Terms are in addition to the Terms and Conditions of the Rental Agreement applicable to your rental.

CHARGE LEVEL AT PICK-UP AND RETURN– Hertz will endeavor to provide the EV at time of vehicle pick-up with a battery charge of 80%. You are required to return the EV with a minimum charge of 10%. You are responsible to maintain a sufficient charge on the EV during your rental. You will be responsible for the cost of any tow if the EV is not drivable due to a low battery. You are not authorized to call a private tow on Hertz’ behalf. All tows of the EV must be by flatbed and must be arranged through Hertz Emergency Roadside Assistance.

RANGE – Range is the estimated distance an EV can travel on a single charge. The EV information provided with your reservation that describes a range is not guaranteed. The battery life of the EV is impacted by a number of factors including weather, driving and road conditions. It is your responsibility to ensure the EV has sufficient remaining battery life to return the EV to Hertz or reach an EV charging station.

CHARGING DURING RENTAL – Subject to Tesla’s terms and conditions, Tesla EV’s are able to access Tesla Superchargers to recharge the EV. If You use a Tesla Supercharger to recharge the EV during your rental, that cost will be billed back to Hertz and added to your rental charges. These charges may not appear on the final invoice and may be added later due to processing time. Battery charging limit on a Tesla should be set at 90% maximum. You may recharge the EV at other public or private charging locations at your own cost. You may also have to register and incur a fee at certain of these locations. You are responsible for any registration (including accepting terms and conditions and privacy policy) and any fees. If You do not move the EV promptly from the charging stall when it is finished charging You may incur an Idle fee for the time the EV remains in a charging stall after it is finished charging. You are responsible for and will indemnify Hertz for any Idle or similar fee incurred when the EV is on rent to You.

DAMAGE TO CHARGING STATIONS – You are responsible for any damage to the EV, the charging station equipment or the charging location when charging the EV during your rental. You will indemnify Hertz for any charges, fines, or penalties You incur for any damage or loss to the EV, the charging station or location during your rental.

EQUIPMENT – The EV will be provided to You with certain equipment for which You are responsible. You are responsible to notify Hertz if any of the following equipment is not with the EV at the time of pick up. Otherwise, You will be charged for any missing equipment at return. Loss Damage Waiver (LDW) does not apply to damage or loss of the equipment provided with the EV.

Key card or fob – You are responsible to return the Key card or Key fob upon your rental return. If the Key card or fob is damaged or lost, You will be charged to replace the Key Card or fob and a service fee. The Key card or Key fob must only be used to charge the EV You have rented. Sharing the Key card or Key fob, using additional Key cards or Key fobs to charge the EV, or charging other vehicles is prohibited. Any misuse of the Key card or Key fob in breach of these Rental Terms will result in additional usage charges.

Tesla Charging Kit – The Tesla Charging Kit consists of 1 Mobile Connector; 1 Storage Bag; and 1 NEMA 5-15 Adapter. You are responsible to return all contents of the Charging Kit upon your rental return. If the Charging Kit, or any part of the contents are damaged or lost, You will be charged for a complete Charging Kit, as these items are not available to be replaced individually, and a service fee.

J1772 Adapter – You are responsible to return the J1772 Adapter on your rental return. If this Adapter is damaged or lost, You will be charged to replace the Adapter and a service fee.

DASH CAM AND PERSONAL DATA – The EV may be equipped with a Dash Cam which may record incidents involving the EV during your rental and privacy is not guaranteed. You are responsible at return to delete all personal data input by You or collected by the EV during your rental.

[FireBeyond]

They did also state that the free charge situation is only "for now".

[wolverine876]

Could you provide a source? What date and locale is this from? etc.

[alphabetting]

Only source I'm seeing is here. Assuming they got it from Hertz

https://twitter.com/DriveTeslaca/status/1452777788918755329

[bdamm]

As a Tesla driver, I really want to rent a Tesla when I’m traveling.

[caf]

We've given plenty of friends a chance to drive, it takes maybe 30 seconds to explain the drive stalk and park brake.

The driving with regen is if anything similar to a dodgem car.

[bink]

The drive stalk and the parking brake, sure. But are you explaining to them how to shift into neutral? How to turn on/off the windshield wipers? Headlights? Pairing phones to use as keys? How to use the valet card?

I have a model 3 but I forget this crap all the time. They'll need to provide decent documentation beyond the touch screen (and I'm sure they will).

[stetrain]

Most people won’t need to touch those things. Headlights and wipers are auto by default. Neutral is needed for car washes or towing which are both abnormal situations for a rental.

And I kind of doubt they’re going to let you pair it with a phone key to the normal Tesla app like you own the car.

[caf]

In fact they instruct you that you're not authorised to organise towing yourself, you have to use their emergency assist number if it needs a tow.

[FireBeyond]

Hertz is poised to make a mint off the people who forget how to open the doors due to muscle memory.

[caf]

Since some recent software update the mechanical door release now drops the windows a little just like the electrical one.

[FireBeyond]

Huh. Audi owners have had that well, as long as they've had frameless doors.

[zemptime]

I hopped in my Tesla for the first time and after a single stop sign where I stopped kind of weird (not honestly that bad), that was it. The Tesla person on the initial lesson assumed I'd driven one before. You get the hang of it really quick. Same story for many other people who've driven my car. If you're not using regenerative breaking it's pretty much like a normal car sans the small acceleration gas cars provide with no braking.

[zemptime]

Actually a metaphor just came to mind.

Imagine you've been playing on a 60hz refresh rate monitor forever. Then, you play your favorite fps on a 120hz refresh rate monitor.

That's what the difference feels like.

[HWR_14]

It seems like in both cases (EVs, 120hz refersh), the majority of people just won't care about either change. But I could be wrong.

[brnt]

Just had to smirk at the reverse car analogy here :)

[sideshowb]

Except it's 100000Hz apparently

[jessriedel]

> small acceleration gas cars provide with no braking

Gas automatic cars :)

[_Microft]

In my experience cars with diesel engines and manual transmissions also had the tendency to creep forward instead of stalling while in first gear when neither brake nor accelerator pedal was stepped on.

[lrem]

All cars will creep forward with the first gear on. The thing is, if you're already going faster than 10km/h, they'll decelerate towards that surprisingly quickly.

[tincholio]

Not really. On petrol cars, if you let go of the clutch in 1st gear and not pushing on the gas, you'll most likely stall. Diesels often don't do this, and creep instead (all of this assuming you're letting go of the clutch slowly enough, otherwise, you'll stall for sure)

[ComputerGuru]

It depends on the condition of the clutch. If it’s a newer clutch or in great shape: definitely not once the gear is fully engaged. I can’t drive my petrol cars in forward or reverse at driveway speeds without riding the clutch a bit to stop from going too fast.

[bdamm]

Petrol cars in 4th gear+ don’t decelerate much. Also most EVs don’t creep.

[jessriedel]

Yea, this is sorta true. If you leave a manual transmission car in gear then the momentum of the pistons, and the minimal gas it's fed to prevent stalling in neutral, will give a very slight push at sufficiently slow speeds. It's much smaller than the effect you get from an automatic, though, where the gas delivered to the engine is enough to keep it from stalling even when shifting to drive from a dead standstill.

Mostly I'm thinking of the situation where you break to a stop. In a manual, you have pushed in the clutch so the wheels are completely disconnected from the engine, giving zero creep when you release the brake, whereas in an automatic the car will start to creep.

[ajb]

I rented an electric Zipcar recently (not a Tesla), without any previous experience of electric cars. My only problem was switching it on, which doesn't quite work like an ICE and there is some control position you need to adopt before it will let you do it. The ten minutes I spent on that were quite frustrating, since I was late and it seemed like I might not be able to get the car to work; also because Zipcar charge by the minute. But I had no problems after that.

[1123581321]

Try a test drive sometime. The Tesla stores only need to give a minute of explanation. A rental employee would do the same thing. They are easy to understand.

[theshrike79]

They might need some custom software from Tesla for the infotainment unit to allow people to pair their phones etc.

Having to do a full reset of the head unit after every customer isn't really a good option.

And I'm pretty sure they'll tap in to the car telemetry and they WILL know if you've been doing quarter mile runs on their car =)

[HarHarVeryFunny]

My concern with renting one (which for now would stop me from doing it), is the scarcity of charging locations. Not sure how far apart they are in most locations nowadays, or what wait times are like, but if I'm on vacation (which is when I most often rent), then no hassle is worth it. There are gas stations everywhere.

[paranoidrobot]

Tesla have a massive charging network of their own, plus you can use all/most of the other public charging stations. In most locations in North America, Europe, Australia as well as some Asian countries you have good access to charging infrastructure.

Tesla's navigation software will show charging locations, as well as add stops automatically if you're planning a route that's too far for the current state of charge.

Plugshare is a good site for finding chargers of all types.

https://www.plugshare.com/

[thehappypm]

When you rent a car, do you pick the type of car today? I always have, I usually see a big list of cars, where larger/more luxurious is pricier. I imagine that's what Hertz will do here. Teslas on the menu, but if you don't want to, or are driving more than 200 miles, you should just go with a Camry.

[amirhirsch]

I was dubious renting a Tesla on turo in Hawaii but I think you would find that charging an electric car at the places you are staying is increasingly an option that is lower cost and less stressful than going to a gas station before going back to the airport.

I also suspect they will have lower backend operating costs and potentially cost drivers less on additional insurance since they can operate in FSD and put the liability on Tesla.

[bdamm]

There are high power chargers pretty much everywhere too. Welcome to 2021.