[mywittyname]

> the latter, I would argue, is the core of roguelikes.

I might be showing my age here, but isn't permadeath the core of roguelikes? Like, isn't the point that you have to start fresh each play, and that's why games like nethack offered a bajillion character classes? Even the og rogue had permadeath.

[jgalecki]

Exactly! A game designed around permadeath will try to keep things fresh for the player, through randomized proc-gen level design or through different character classes. Or, to put it another way, imagine Super Mario World with a single life and no saves. It would count as permadeath, but it certainly wouldn't be a roguelike. Roguelikes are designed around permadeath at their core.