[hunterb123]

That doesn't make any sense. It's not a philosophical view, it's an event in history and a matter of fact.

Cities defunded police departments, crime went up, some of those same cities then later re-funded those departments, and even increased budgets.

The crime statistics and city council laws passed support these claims, I have not found any claims disputing these facts.

Even the left most leaning sources agree with these claims.

[philosopher1234]

The interpretations, not the facts, are what I’m referencing.

[hunterb123]

Such as?

[csnover]

Hi, Minneapolitan here. I try not to wade into these sorts of discussions because it is usually unproductive or even counterproductive, but since you have expressed a sincere interest in talking about the facts of the situation, here’s what they actually are here.

The police budget for MPD in 2014 was $145.6M for 850 officers. In 2020, the year you suggest they were defunded, the budget was $181.9M for 770 officers—a 38% increase per officer from 2014 (28.7% after adjusting for inflation)[0]. In fact, that department is ending the current fiscal year $5M under budget[1], and the current mayor has proposed an additional 17% expenditure increase for 2022.[2]

The police in Minneapolis were never defunded. They have more money than ever. Efforts to introduce meaningful reforms (inaccurately called “defunding the police” by some) have also not been abandoned by the city council. We are currently voting on a charter amendment that would replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. The new department would still include police officers but would be coequal with all other departments in the city (it currently has a unique status where it is controlled exclusively by the mayor), and its focus would be on preventing crime instead of policing people.

On the other hand, other parts of the city budget are underwater due to hundreds of former officers quitting and claiming PTSD[3], and the officers who remain are engaged in an intentional work slowdown[4] while blaming others[5] for what is a largely self-inflicted wound.

What I think the other participant in this discussion was suggesting—and something that I would echo—is that your sources for news don’t seem to be giving you accurate information and you may want to reconsider using them as primary sources, at least on this topic.

[0] https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency

[1] https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/145018398771290931... (This is the Minneapolis city council president)

[2] https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/FileV2/24988/2022-Bu...

[3] https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/10/06/mpls-police-ptsd-cl...

[4] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli...

[5] https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/10/20/mpd-cop-says-office...

[hunterb123]

December 2020, the Minneapolis city council voted to defund the police department $8 million for the 2021 budget. [1]

February 2021, the Minneapolis city council voted to add $6.4 million to the police budget. [2]

[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-city-council-v...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/minneapolis-police-fun...

[2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-to-spend-2464-...

The budget for 2020 was never in question, the riots and defund police movement started in the summer of 2020.

City policies were being discussed late in the year, concerning the 2021 budget.

[philosopher1234]

How precisely did the supposed defunding lead to an increase in crime?

[hunterb123]

The same way defunding a fire department will lead to an increase in fire damage.

Less resources means slower response times or no response at all.

That wasn't the premise though, the question was whether they defunded and then later refunded when crime was rising.

Above I showed GP that Minneapolis did in fact do this, as did many other cities.