[Hypx_]

Except you can extract 237 kJ/mole from hydrogen. A fuel cell is a battery and can approach the efficiency of a lithium-ion battery.

> No, you cannot use existing gas pipelines for transporting hydrogen.

You absolutely can. In fact gas companies are already planning this exact thing.

> For passenger cars, EVs today are already better than what physics allow hydrogen cars to ever be.

Your "physics" is entirely pseudoscience.

[rini17]

I thought too you can but it's only theoretically, not absolutely. See for example: https://youtu.be/vrKvj2MHLVw

[Hypx_]

It is fully viable: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2020/...

[rini17]

I prefer opinion of independent expert over that of technology vendor soliciting EU's investment. But even they say "won't be before 2030" anyway.

[Hypx_]

It will likely be a transition from blended hydrogen before reaching 100% hydrogen later. Just because it won't happen all at once doesn't mean it hasn't already started.

[rini17]

I am not against hydrogen, but seems to me as if nobody in the space is noticing the disruption what electrical batteries already are. If battery trends continue by 2030 the value of refitting infrastructure to hydrogen easily becomes questionable [note], when there's a way to both transport and store energy more efficiently and at the same price if not cheaper. There are no signs of battery improvements to stop anytime soon or price to stop dropping.

[note] for pure hydrogen eventually everything except the pipelines will have to be replaced

[Hypx_]

I think those people are simply living in the past. It is hydrogen disrupting batteries, not the other away around. In fact, I see a flattening of the pace of battery improvements, meaning the speed of this disruption event should be moving faster than expected. By 2030 the battery "revolution" might have already collapsed and left for obsolescence.

It's important to remember that hydrogen fuel cells are batteries too. There is no reason for the metal lithium to have magic properties over other battery technologies.

[jliptzin]

Does hydrogen get added back into the fuel cell as the car breaks?