[fastball]

Yeah, I'm honestly flabbergasted that people like using a browser that has the performance of Chromium without the Google, a thorough / very performant ad-blocker built-in, and some totally optional next-gen features that many people like.

[AegirLeet]

There is no "Chromium without the Google". Chromium/Blink is made by Google. By using a browser built on Chromium/Blink, you are actively supporting Google's browser engine hegemony.

[rglullis]

The browser is not just the engine and the "browser engine hegemony" is not what really matters.

What matters is that Google does not establish a position where it can use its browser to dictate the direction of the whole web in favor of its business.

Chromium or not, Brave was never forced to adopt the changes in the extension manifest (which would block some ad-blocking and tracking mechanisms). They also never were forced to implement FLOC, they have their own policy regarding third-party cookies, etc, etc.

Sure it would be better if we had diversity and more choices in all different layers, but if you think about it the more companies use Chromium to create browsers that take the web in a different direction from what Google wants, the more Google gets judo-ed out of its dominance.

[twobitshifter]

I think we’ve seen how Google can kneecap it’s open source products with Android, taking more and more portions into closed source. Why won’t they take the same step with chromium if Microsoft edge and Brave become too popular?

[rglullis]

In your example, Chrome is to Android as Chromium is to AOSP. They can not close the Chromium parts, much like they can not close the AOSP parts.

Having MS Edge and Brave becoming too popular would be akin to getting LineageOS, /e/OS to mainstream, and it is exactly my point: no matter how much that would be against Google's interests, there is nothing they can do about it.

[twobitshifter]

Lineage and e are both at a disadvantage because of a lack of Google play integration which makes banking apps among others not function. People can hack around this but the OS will never end up mainstream as a result.

To do the same to chromium, all Google would need to do is make YouTube rely on some proprietary DRM that’s not in Chromium and everyone will end up switching back to chrome. Brave isn’t large enough that Google cares to swat them away, but since they control the underlying project they have ways to neuter chromium.

[rglullis]

> People can hack around this but the OS will never end up mainstream as a result

Not people. Companies.

Microsoft and Brave are only piggy-backing on Google's resources and manpower. It's not like they can't they do it, it's more of a "why should we try to set sail now while there is a huge transatlantic ship that can carry us?".

If Google starts neutering Chromium, it's on Microsoft, Brave and all other browsers depending on it will pick up the slack.

And if they don't, that's when it makes sense to look for a Chromium-free alternative.

If Mozilla's problems were financial or lack of capacity to get the resources to work on the browser, at least you'd have a point in saying "we need to support the alternatives now". But Mozilla's problems are not financial, they are due to bad leadership. No amount of money thrown their way is going to solve it.

> Brave isn’t large enough that Google cares

Google asked Brave to testify in Congress in their favor, to say that Google is not abusing its dominance on the web. Google can not swat them away.

[xNeil]

It seems Brave tones down or deals with most of the creepy stuff in Chromium. https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...

[orangepurple]

On a technical level there is a Chromium without Google

https://chromium.woolyss.com/

I don't care for your political argument.

[smoldesu]

If you don't care for political arguments, you probably shouldn't defend a browser made by Brendan Eich.

[fastball]

Brendan Eich has personal political views. How would you say those manifest in Brave?

[tommit]

I'm with you. I check out most brave threads on HN and am always surprised by the level of hatred towards it.

I've been using it for over a year now. It's a good browser and I like the new ideas they come up with. I don't know whether it's going to catch on, but at least someone is thinking outside the box.

[Tepix]

I'm surprised by the hatred towards pretty much anything these days, even things that are benign.