[kempbellt]

Makes sense that some people are annoyed.

Apple wanted to be "bold" and forced a lot of their users into a pipeline that didn't last. And now they are listening to the demands of their users and backtracking.

Users that stuck with them are now being punished for their brand loyalty.

Apple: "If you want to connect to HDMI, you have to buy a dongle now. Also TOUCHBAR! Woot."

User: "Ugh...fine"

Apple: "So... now that you own that dongle that you didn't need, but we decided to make you need. Well, we decided not to make you need it anymore! It's built in. Also, no more touchbar! See! We listen!"

User: "Ugh......."

I'm not here to harp on Apple, but I understand why some people are a little put off by their decisions.

[csomar]

I like the magsafe and the card reader could be useful. But I think Apple should have stuck with the usb-c. Someone should push the standard. USB-C could handle anything (mouse, keyboard, printer, screen, camera, network, etc...). There was a time when the printer, mouse, keyboard and network all had different cables: It was a mess. I also can't interchange these cables. USB-C changes that and it is also smaller and fancier than the USB-A type.

Just the other day, I had to buy an HDMI cable for my screen. That could be a USB-C. But screen makers and graphic card makers are not going to change overnight. No one is strong enough to push the standard too. If anyone can do it, it's Apple. This is, in my opinion, a step backward.

[spockz]

I agree and would love to have everything usb-c. But I’m skeptical that will happen, for one practical thing. Apparently not every usb-c cable is created equal and not every usb-c port is created equal either. (Remember that Nintendo device with an usb-c port that turned out not to comply to the spec?)

If every cable looks the same but one is suited for 240W of juice but doesn’t do data and the other vice versa, maybe we would be worse off…

[InitialLastName]

> (Remember that Nintendo device with an usb-c port that turned out not to comply to the spec?)

Someone needs to be the pedant and say this every time it comes up: It wasn't the Nintendo device that didn't respect the spec, it was knock-off docks and chargers that didn't respect the spec and damaged the Nintendo device [0]. I happen to think that Nintendo's engineers should have designed against some shenanigans by third parties (I do with my USB-C devices), but they weren't strictly wrong.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...

[IggleSniggle]

I spent more time than I'd like to admit trying to find the perfect off-brand usb-c dongle that would work with my switch (so I can plug it in to TVs when I travel, without needing to bring the whole dock). I am about 80% confident that the dongle that I eventually got wont brick my Switch, as long as I remember to plug in the power first and then the Switch (or was it the other way around)?

Oh yeah, and also, unrelated to the above, I now inspect the tiny grey-on-black voltage information whenever I'm about to plug in a USB-C cable for providing power.

Oh yeah, and also, each USB-C cable has its own special purpose, since they aren't actually interchangeable, as it turns out.

USB-C somehow managed to find the worst intersection of "Universally pluggable" without being a universal standard.

[notJim]

They're not moving away from USB-C, right? It'll still be there, and you'll still be able to charge using it, I thought.

[gnicholas]

Yes, you can still charge over USB-C, but apparently only the 14" model can "fast charge" over USB-C. Both can do so over MagSafe:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/19/16-inch-macbook-pro-fas...

[ashtonkem]

I really don’t understand the anger over usb c, even now. I got a single cable dock that handles all my peripherals. It’s not like they made that useless; it would still work and it’s still nice to have a single cable that drives everything. Even if I got a new MBP I’d continue to use USB-C, because it’s a better UX.

Hell, you can now buy monitors that work only with USB-C. It’s clearly the way everything is going, Apple just moved a bit too fast.

[laurent92]

That dongle is $69, but you can try buying the off-brand, where you’re not sure whether it works, not sure it’s doesn’t upload your data to China, and not sure it doesn’t have malware. If you’re hit, good luck explaining your choice of brand to your insurance. So basically, it’s $69.

[ashtonkem]

So? Next to a few thousand dollars of laptop, monitor, and peripherals what's another $70? Especially since that hub will be compatible with every laptop I will own for the next few decades, regardless of the brand.

[MisterTea]

> I got a single cable dock that handles all my peripherals.

That you have to drag with you if you want those ports away from your desk. Plug into a TV or projector and you need a dongle. No thanks. Ports are fine by me and I don't care if that adds 0.5mm or some stupid aesthetics nonsense.

[notJim]

I don't understand this dongle stuff. You just buy a USB-C to HDMI cable and plug that in. I don't see how it's any different than buying an HDMI cable.

I'm a photographer, so the SD card slot is nice for me personally, but it really doesn't make sense to build it into the laptop. It must be used by a tiny percentage of people.

[vlovich123]

Most new TVs/displays can do Thunderbolt so there’s your USBC connector replacing HDMI. Hdmi can be useful for longer runs because of integrity and there you’d want a HDMI->C cable/adapter that’s an active part.

For SD cards, the majority of people don’t use SD cards (even customers for the pro line). It’s a concession to an important niche, but forcing that niche to have a USBC adapter that is built into the SD card (maybe not possible?), having a separate SD card reader dongle, or having the camera itself be the SD card reader all seem like better choices than forcing all laptops to have an SD reader.

What’s the compelling story for why SD card or HDMI strictly need to be built in for all customers? The story for HDMI is kind of the strongest because the HDMI market is much more common day-to-day and USB-C as a display technology hasn’t yet permeated standalone TVs and projectors.

[tempoponet]

Generally I agree, but projectors specifically have almost always required dongles w/ Macs and the solution was usually to keep one attached to the projector cable or tethered nearby. Mini-DVI, Mini-Displayport, and even HDMI wasn't standard on many office projectors. It's a hassle but not specific to usb-c or a recent phenomenon.

[athenot]

My LG 5k monitor acts as my hub and power source, so I'm pretty close to "plug 1 thing". And from there I have a wired apple keyboard that connects to the monitor (yes with a dongle). But the keyboard has 2 old USB connectors which double as thumb drive connectors.

As it stands, I still have an analog audio out because I've procrastinated on getting a usb digital in/out, and I also have a ethernet <-> thunderbolt connector because I only got about 400Mb/s when going via the monitor instead of 950+ when going direct.

3 small connectors all on 1 side isn't that bad.

That being said, I welcome the HDMI addition mostly for older conference rooms which aren't equipped with Apple TV / Webex Proximity / etc.

[FinalBriefing]

Yea, having "one cable to rule them all" is great. I can see why having an HDMI port would be nice when you're traveling, or using shared projectors, but at this point, if you don't have a USB-C to HDML adaptor...

[whimsicalism]

Do we have more than 2 port USB-C hubs yet?

[cbarrick]

There are 4x Thunderbolt 4 hubs.

- 4x Thunderbolt 4 (1x with power supply) - 3x USB-A 3.2 - 1x USB-A 2.0 (with power supply) - 1x Gigabit Ethernet - 1x UHS-II SDXC - 1x Audio

Actually, it looks like this same hub is sold by both Sonnettech and Kensington.

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo11-thunderbolt4-dock/...

https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking-connect...

[Isthatablackgsd]

Yes there are but they are rare. I found a 4-port[3.1] USB-C Hub in Amazon for $70 USD.

[cactus2093]

100% this. I think it's a good lesson that sometimes there are multiple decisions/outcomes which are good enough, and there is no one perfect choice. Some people will be happy if you go one way and others prefer the other way. But waffling back and forth between them instead of sticking to one coherent strategy can be worse than committing to either of the options.

[thereddaikon]

My problem with USB-C is its too dainty. Since it became the defacto charger interface for laptops I can't tell you how many chargers and laptops we've had to either replace or get repaired under warranty because the physical connector isn't up to the task.

USB-C seems to be fine perfectly straight on with no strain at all but use it in anything less than ideal situations and it wears out surprisingly fast. The connectors tend to be longer than they are wide, which is always bad for robustness and they have 0 built in strain relief.

I think it performs well and they got the reversible design right but its just a little too wimply for the way people really use their devices.

[mixmastamyk]

Remember when we would use a screwdriver to permanently attach a peripheral? Via serial or parallel, etc. How far we've come.

[thereddaikon]

Im not saying we need to go back to screws. But to compare usb-c to the previous standard power connector lenovo used, which was shaped like a usb type a port but a bit chunkier. we never had issues with the ports wearing out or getting damaged with those. They lasted the life of the device just fine. But I have T14s with usb-c charging that need new chargers or charge ports after a few months.

Obviously YMMV but when you manage a device fleet you start to see more clearly how "average users" treat things and how designs hold up.

[pedroma]

I haven't felt this way until recently when using a USB-C port plugged in while in bed. Felt like I had to be careful moving around or I'll hit the cable and damage my port.

[foogazi]

> Users that stuck with them are now being punished for brand loyalty

How is anyone being punished ?

As for sticking with them - macbooks have to be the most recognized laptop brand out there

The new Macbook Pro doesn’t affect your current macbook’s operation

Your dialogue creates a straw-user out there that somehow adopts Apple design decisions as dogma - it’s just a machine