[whichquestion]

5 years of security updates, 3 years of feature updates.

On the page it says on the 12th footnote, "Feature drops for at least 3 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store in the US. Your Pixel will receive feature drops during the applicable Android update and support periods for the phone. See g.co/pixel/updates for details."

On https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 it says, "Guaranteed Android version updates until at least: October 2024" and "Guaranteed security updates until at least: October 2026" for Pixel 6 and Pixel 6 Pro

So they hypothetically could extend it to more than 3 years of feature updates and 5 years of security updates with the nebulous "at least" wording.

[ehsankia]

Historically, they have. Older pixels all had 2 year feature 3 year security, but ended up getting 3 year feature+security.

Although, after 1-2 year, the features get a bit thinner because a lot of the newer features rely on new hardware that the older phones don't fully have. Sometimes they try to make it work, like how Astrophotography was available on older pixels but didn't work quite as well as on Pixel 4. But in general, they probably put the "at least" because it's hard to guarantee that a feature in 5 years will be backportable to Pixel 6.

[nextos]

If you use a third-party ROM such as the excellent GrapheneOS, in practice you get fully featured updates for really really long.

With that said, open source ROMs don't take advantage of some features such as the Tensor SoC, and therefore the camera stops performing so good.

[phh]

GrapheneOS is pretty clear about not supporting devices longer than the OEM.

From their FAQ:

Why are older devices no longer supported?

GrapheneOS aims to provide reasonably private and secure devices. It cannot do that once device support code like firmware, kernel and vendor code is no longer actively maintained. Even if the community was prepared to take over maintenance of the open source code and to replace the rest, firmware would present a major issue

[nextos]

There was extended support planned for Pixel 2, which was dropped recently from mainline, but it has not happened yet.

One can always switch to a different ROM I guess.

[kaba0]

Graphene has a specific sandbox for google play services, so you can continue to run the google pixel camera app (which can presumably run the same way as under the official OS)

But also, it has a good hardware ISP that will also improve image quality by itself.

[akc3n]

GrapheneOS is working on its new Camera app, which will soon replace the bundled AOSP camera app.

For more info: https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1450746282176303107

[1vuio0pswjnm7]

It's funny that when discussing the topic of "updates" and obsolescence, users focus on the vendor as if they have exclusive control over the situation. Authors of applications may also play a role. For example, when they "update" their applications to only work with newer versions of Android. Depending on the user's application needs, that can shorten the life of a an Android device. Some applications will continue to work with both older and newer Android versions, some will not. For example, F-Droid has numerous programs that will work on older, "obsolete" Android versions. This allows older hardware to be re-purposed and to continue to be useful for some uses. Not sure that Apple has anything like this; consider how many programs in the Apple App Store work with older iOS versions.

Both Android vendor and Apple hardware continue to work long after the software has become "outdated". That hardware does not die when the software becomes "obsolete". The vendor may choose to ignore this fact in the interest of sales but it does not mean that authors of applications must ignore it as well.

The third factor besides the vendor and the authors of applications are the operating system authors. With older PC-like hardware, I can run the latest versions of NetBSD. Forever. I update when and if I decide it is time. x86 has its benefits. It is sad that these pocket-sized computers called "smartphones" are so inflexible.

A non-HN reader recently told me that the "tech" industry has turned us all into "beta testers". The entire "updates" concept needs a serious examination. Updates are not a substitute for quality control.

[chrismcb]

I'm not sure how app authors shorten the life. If the app author only targets a new version of the os, then if the phone gets the new OS then all I good. So it is up too the vendor providing the new os, but the app provider. Now, the app provider can do supporting old OSes but that won't shorten the time past what the vendor sets

[1vuio0pswjnm7]

Whither the iOS equivalent of https://www.oldversion.com/android/

With open source software for PC, in many cases we (users of open source OS) have the choice to install any version we want. Sometimes I need to I run older Linux programs with older versions of system libraries. We can download these older versions of libraries and programs from an FTP sites or websites that provide a simple directory listing, an "Index of" page.

With pocket-sized computers called "smartphones", instead we (users of open source OS) have to contend with "app stores". The author publishes a new version and all older versisons "disappear". This lack of choice may be suitable for some users, but may not be suitable for every user, i.e., "one size fits all".

[commoner]

Old versions of Android apps are frequently archived on sites like APKMirror and Aptoide.

- APKMirror: https://www.apkmirror.com

- Aptoide (requires app store download, stick with "trusted apps" for security): https://aptoide.com

Also, Aurora Store lets you download older versions from the Play Store through the "Manual download" menu option. You'll need the "version code" (different from version number) of the app version you want to download.

[jay_kyburz]

This is whats wrong with my iPad. I don't care that it doesn't get updates from Apple, but the web has moved on and it will fail to open a lot of web pages.

Failed to load the deno.land standard library docs just last night while I was watching TV.

Still not going to buy a new iPad though.

[howinteresting]

Unlike iOS where basic features like the web browser require system updates, Android is modular and updates get pushed through other channels independently of the OS itself.

[ericmay]

Which is ok, and if you don’t use Safari then you don’t have to worry about this.

[Sargos]

I'm not sure what you mean by not worrying about iOS needing OS updates for browser upgrades as the Safari engine is the only web browser engine allowed on iOS and third party browsers like Chrome are just skins on top of Safari and not real counterparts to their desktop cousins. Upgrading the OS is the only way to get new web functionality and bug fixes.

[fulafel]

Does the browsee limitation come from loading non reviewed code and interpreting it? Are other browsers allowed if they don't implement JavaScript?

[Sargos]

I think that would be allowed, yes. It would be a rather useless web browser though so that's probably why nobody has tried before.

[ericmay]

Web browsers have to use the Safari engine but that doesn't mean they don't also separately update the browsers and add functionality. I.e. you mostly get modularity by not using Safari even if you have to rely on the underlying Safari engine being updated. Most of the features users notice are updated by the app provider anyway.

[howinteresting]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here--all iOS browsers are custom skins on top of Safari.

Yes I'm aware of WKWebView and how it's not the same as Safari. I'm using the classic meaning of browser skins, dating back to browsers like Maxthon which were wrappers over Trident in exactly the same way.

[ericmay]

No I'm not being sarcastic - I think calling the apps a skin on top of Safari is a bit of an over-simplification. Most features that users notice happen at this skin layer, not the rendering layer. It's peak HN to really be caring about this especially as Apple offers (as far as I know) no performance difference across browsers using Webkit or w/e. You could actually just say that Safari itself is a skin too, just the default one that comes with iOS.

It's similar to complaining about other basic features of iOS IMO (like complaining there's a default settings app or that iOS just works a certain way).

[howinteresting]

What about security updates or new HTML features? Chrome or Firefox on Android get security updates for many years after official system updates end. The same is not true for Apple.

[ericmay]

Don't think most users know or care about security or HTML features so while certainly it's a difference it's unlikely to be important for most users.

Think of Safari as a skin that's unbundled from the engine. While Chrome or Firefox are reliant on Apple to update the engine, so is Safari, but neither are reliant on Apple for other functionality that they want to implement that users can take advantage of.

IMO it's modular enough.

[Descon]

Still waiting on that PWA support...

[EastOfTruth]

> 5 years of security updates, 3 years of feature updates.

It would be nice to have 8 years of security updates and 0 years of feature updates, instead. I always dreamed of having the option to only have security updates on my OSes...

[lmns]

They could easily do it if they wanted to, now that they have more control over the SoC. With Chrome OS they already do it. Most devices that are released now will get 8 years of security updates, which are supplied by Google.