[dmitriid]

> With smart meters

So,

- it is a parallel grid for all intents and purposes. Because you will have to supply literally every apartment, every house, every building (and parts of buildings) with smart meters.

It's also funny how you don't see beyond this already weird decision. Example from actual reality: TV Pickup [1]. "A phenomenon in the United Kingdom that involves surges in demand on the electrical grid, occurring when a large number of people simultaneously watch the same television programme. TV pickup occurs when viewers take advantage of commercial breaks in programming to operate electrical appliances at the same time, causing large synchronised surges in national electricity consumption"

That's just kettles and microwaves.

Now, with smart meters you've powered down "cheapskates". When we have more power, we now... bring entire households back online. Good luck handling that

- it is a libertarian view: The rich will get the power while the unfortunate ones won't even be able to refrigerate their food. Medical equipment will fail. People will freeze in winter. Trains will not run. etc.

I absolutely love your "realistic policies".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

[LargoLasskhyfv]

I don't know where you live, but where I'm living they seem to be standard now. By law. With few exceptions. Though the ones in the House I'm living in are continously blinking "E-21", so I'd guess their uplink is down, and they can't do FTP.

I'm just telling how it is. Not what I like, or support.

[dmitriid]

> I don't know where you live, but where I'm living

Exactly. There's a lot you don't know.

> I'm just telling how it is.

You're not telling it "how it is". You're telling a fantasy and calling it "realistic policies".

You didn't even know about things like TV Pickup, did you? And you can't even imagine how your "realistic policies" would affect the grid.

You didn't even know that smart meters are not everywhere.

You didn't think how selling "good power" only to the rich would affect everyone. (Oh, right, anyone who won't be able to afford it are just cheapskates).

Yup. "Just how it is".

> so I'd guess their uplink is down, and they can't do FTP.

Ah yes. Great smart meters that should be installed in the millions and people should rely on them to properly turn off and turn on gigawatts of power in the blink of an eye.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

Dude...chill! Did I get you on the wrong foot somehow?

Of course I know about effects like TV-Pickup, though I don't have TV since 1996.

Maybe I should have marked it as sarcasm?

Furthermore I also know that smart meters aren't everywhere, but I've been aware of them for a long time, and also of regions where they've been installed before they got installed here.

What can I say? I'm living the fucking cyberpunk dystopy where corporations make the rules, politicians are fools, but most people are too, so it actually IS some form of democracy, because it represents the majority, otherwise they wouldn't have elected the fools.

So. How it is... I know about blinking E-21 because I had to walk into the cellar to read the meter and email the counter value to my utility a few days ago.

Anything else? Do you want to have fries with that?

Or maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(Elsberg_novel) ?

Yes I'm very wary about cyberphysical systems implemented by the lowest bidder, and operated by outsourced nobodies.

[dmitriid]

> Dude...chill! Did I get you on the wrong foot somehow?

Sorry, I should've looked at the nickname, but it's been a long thread. I thought it was jacquesm answering me :)

> Of course I know about effects like TV-Pickup

So imagine how you turn off entire households and then bring them online in one sweep as soon as "reliable power" comes on. How do you propose to handle that?

> So. How it is... I know about blinking E-21 because I had to walk into the cellar to read the meter and email the counter value to my utility a few days ago.

So:

- a smart meter that cannot upload something to a remote FTP server

- and a system that's supposed to turn off "cheapskates" if there isn't "reliable power"

Ah, this will work just wonderfully, and reliably.

> Or maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(Elsberg_novel)

Ah yes, disaster thrillers are the source of knowledge and truth we should turn to. Because, as you put it, "it's telling as it is"?

> Yes I'm very wary about cyberphysical systems implemented by the lowest bidder, and operated by outsourced nobodies.

And yet, "With smart meters. Premium payer gets power. Cheapskate gets switched off.".

This will work wonderfully.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

> How do you propose to handle that?

Staggered start up

> Ah yes, disaster thrillers are the source of knowledge and truth we should turn to. Because, as you put it, "it's telling as it is"?

It was actually a suggestion, to have with the fries, but not fully jokingly, because it reads in good way and does need NO suspension of disbelief. Not that it would be my source of knowledge of the subject, k?

By telling as it is I referred to what is here, what I'm aware of elsewhere, not that it would be unconditionally and universally so. Just that it is a trend and a desire of the involved governments, industries, bizniks and utilities.

> a smart meter that cannot upload something to a remote FTP server

In this case YOU don't know why that is. Maybe someone who is wary of such systems spoke with his lawyers and protested? So smart meters are installed but not linked, pending on judgement of several things, the principle as such, because 'the smarts' are wasting energy, the reliability and security of the things, and their accuracy. As long as my insurance pays, or it is decided against. Which is likely.

That's how it is! And now get off my lawn!