Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by zionic 1700 days ago
I also don’t see what all the fuss is about here.

SpaceX making a well to power the human colonization of mars is a drop in the bucket vs all the other wells in the state.

4 comments

The big deal is that the well is seemingly exempt from the regulation all other wells go through.

It doesn't matter what Musk does with the methane, what matters is that he's at best exploiting loopholes and at worst operating extrajudicially.

Also, SpaceX "powering the human colonization of Mars" is a pretty huge sip of the Kool Aid there. Given the founder's track record, it's about as believable as "fully self-driving cars in a year".

But, more importantly, it's irrelevant to the problem at hand, sidestepping the regulation process

> "he's at best exploiting loopholes and at worst operating extrajudicially. [...] But, more importantly, it's irrelevant to the problem at hand, sidestepping the regulation process"

Again, the EPA exists, so where are they in this? What loophole is SpaceX using to skirt around the EPA?

IMHO SpaceX should get an exemption for national security purposes (For the same reason the US Military doesn’t need to abide by the EPA). Access to space is in the national interest. I don’t think something that has an immeasurable impact on the climate is anywhere close to being more important.
The EPA is also a national security concern. No need to defend space that you've already turned into a toxic wasteland
> The EPA is also a national security concern.

I strongly agree, but not for the reason you give. Environmental destruction is likely to start more wars than it prevents...

SpaceX can get a national security exemption the moment we nationalize them.
File a complaint with the Texas Railroad Commission and the US EPA, in all seriousness. If you need methane to escape the gravity well, follow the rules like everyone else in O&G.
Well, apparently not everyone else [1]:

"The FTSE 250 group, which is the largest well owner in the US with over 61,000 in its portfolio, found itself on the defensive after a Bloomberg report said several wells owned by the company were leaking methane, a highly potent greenhouse gas."

[1] https://newsflash.one/2021/10/12/market-report-leaking-wells...

That’s a serious accusation without evidence.

The document clearly states that Spacex has an application with the FAA for the use of the land as a Launch Site.

The subsidiary “Lone star mineral extraction” is an entity that purchased another company along with all their licenses for extraction rights in addition to seemingly applying for their own licenses.

I’d recommend you edit your comment to correct it. There is no sidestepping of regulations here, the regulations themselves cover different things and the article makes it sound like one set of regulations should cover these activities while clearly saying that it currently does not.

Given his track record? Who has a better one?
How's FSD looking?
Well, what SpaceX is doing doesn't really matter. I can't just show up to Arkansas and say I'm fracking for oil to cure cancer and get hand-waved through. They're private entities, no matter what they're doing, and they're subject to the same scrutiny that everyone else puts up with.
That is ideally how it is supposed to work, but there are many examples of regulations being bypassed and other folks being stepped on to get a desired employer or a potentially lucrative investment into a place.

It doesn’t sound like it is happening here necessarily, but it does happen pretty frequently.

This is not true at all. Doubly not true when your program is subsidized by Federal dollars and takes place adjacent to protected federal lands.

The FAA is subject to NEPA review, and hence any SpaceX activity in this area must go through the same process as every other industrial activity that impacts federal interests.

Surely you know by now that Elon/SpaceX will get its fuel no matter what, even if it means trucking the fuel there, seems to me your best case scenario will increase net emissions.

Protecting the environment is not the point of this stunt, is it?

Well my cancer cure is subsidized by federal dollars, and our headquarters is right next to the post office. Can't we just start drilling already?
Ah yes, the "The ends justify the means" move.
I was just thinking about this phrase in regards to Musk about ten minutes ago.

“The ends” are the most laudable things I can imagine: electrifying the world and colonizing other celestial bodies.

While I love the goals, I am afraid of what a mission-driven person might rationalize and do to achieve them.

The ends justify giving people like Musk wide latitude but keeping them in check when the negative externalities tip the scale away from the benefits.
I certainly give Musk wide latitude even when he makes it difficult.

I was thinking more along the lines of how one in his position could drift in their perspective and values as they get distorted by the blinders of hyper mission focus.

Another thought to add here - he also gets paid very well in a very concrete way to LOOK like he is doing those things, and if he never gets in a spaceship but still enjoys the billions? Hard life.
Yes, heaven forbids he drills 10,000th gas well in the US on his way.
I was not thinking about gas wells at all. I have no opinion there except I thought we were doing the Sabatier reaction process to prep for Mars and be carbon negative.
I mean SpaceX is trying to colonize mars, if it doesn't manage to pull off this risky gambit we might as well make our only livable planet unlivable in the process. Seems like a good way to operate. At least we will have some cool space tech too.
There is currently no known way a Mars colony could be economically self sustaining or self contained. Literally zero.

So unless there is something truly magical up someone’s sleeve, we need to keep Earth workable for us for the foreseeable future. And I think that is a good thing.

Fuck Mars, all those asteroids are going to be way more valuable for Earth. Getting to them needs the same exact industry.
Also more energy efficient as no need to climb back out of a deep gravity well!