[JAlexoid]

I doubt that Apple arcade makes them that much money.

Counting the App Store service fee of 30% as "game revenue" is disingenuous, as then we could count every single Windows license sale and every single dollar of revenue from hosting game servers as "making money from games".

[ksec]

>Counting the App Store service fee of 30% as "game revenue" is disingenuous,

It was total revenue from App Store derived from Gaming Apps. I dont see how that is disingenuous. Just like Sony makes a cut from games on PS5.

[JAlexoid]

> I dont see how that is disingenuous.

When Apple has a total 0 input in making and marketing of said game and just charges for services - that's not revenue from games.

And if you want to put a bar that low - Google makes billions from ads for games, YouTube play alongs and other services purchased by game makers. Let's also no forget Starbucks revenues from all the game devs, that definitely counts as game revenue.

> Just like Sony makes a cut from games on PS5.

You do realize that all PS5 games get input and support from Sony, do you?

[ksec]

Apple dictate what is inside their App Store. Along with tools that partly support the Game Development. i.e Development of Metal and their Custom GPU ( At least that is the way Apple likes to formalise their argument in court ) . In reality there is no different between the role of Apple and Sony when viewed from a business perspective. No matter how big or small their input into Games. They take their Cut on Games purchase. So either Sony is not counted as one, and if they do the similar revenue counting could also be used for Apple.

[Talanes]

>Apple dictate what is inside their App Store.

Walmart dictates what gets put on their shelves. Should we throw them into this contest too?

[chipotle_coyote]

Walmart does make money from games if they sell games, yes. That doesn't make them "a game company," but that isn't actually the question.

I think people -- on both sides of this little mini-debate -- may be trying to carve out too fine a distinction. Insisting that it's only correct to say that a company makes money from games if the company is developing or publishing games suggests that GameStop doesn't make money from games -- a rather hard position to defend.

[ksec]

For the sake of clarity I just add something.

The reason why Walmart or GameStop wouldn't be counted in Game Revenue is because they belong to Retail segment. Even if they were to be counted I think retail label would have to be inserted somewhere.

Neither Walmart or GameStop contribute anything to the actual making of Games. They have added zero value to the making of Games in that value chain and act as distribution only ( and arguably discovery in terms of foot traffic ). Since Retail is a clearly defined term, It is perfectly valid to suggest ( Apple's ) App Store as similar to Walmart and GameStop. But I dont think anyone would agree Apple == App Store. Apple as a Platform ( providing tools and support ) Apple as a Publisher ( Buy apps from you and resold to their customers ) and Apple as a Distributor ( App Store ).

It is all about the value creation and where the cuts are taken. It is also the reason why most of the debate about Apple becomes pointless where these aren't clearly defined in the argument. Although Judge Rogers seems to be able to dissect all of these in a very clear manner.

[JAlexoid]

Right... "Business perspective". Come back when Apple spends marketing resources on literally every single game that is published to App Store.

(Also - if you downvote, then don't bother replying)

[gamacodre]

Ofttimes Sony's "input" isn't much more than "your licensing message needs to stay on-screen for another 0.5 seconds to pass acceptance test X.X". Maybe they're doing more for non-AAA devs these days?

They did help us out when we ran into issues with the dev tooling, but then so does Apple.

Source: I was lead engine dev on a couple of mid-cycle PS2 games.