[criley2]

>Do you prefer Ivanka or Hunter flavours of corruption?

Such a dishonest comparison. One was nepotistically involved in day to day operations of the American government, put into diplomatic situations in an official capacity, even attempted to be named World Bank President.

The other is completely divorced from politics and uses his name to sell artwork

This kind of false equivalence does great service to the worst-of-all-time American corruption we experienced in 2016-2020, and helps ensure that it will return.

Which flavor do I prefer? Obviously the one without nepotism, where the child has nothing to do with politics, government and serves in no capacity, official or otherwise. And you should to. Shame on you for pretending otherwise.

When you can't differentiate between nefarious nepotistic public corruption and "using the family name to sell paintings", you do your part to ensure it can and will get worse.

>We can't even vote that out so the Military Industrial Complex is pretty safe

The Military Industrial Complex is very mad at Joe for ending the Afghanistan war and actually pulling troops out. While the previous President admitted he would have left thousands of troops, defied the agreement, and continued the war.

Once again, your false equivalence makes you say "both sides" when there is a real difference.

The war in Afghanistan ended because only one side had the cajones to stick it to the military industrial complex and actually end it, regardless of the optics, the politics and the cost. But you're playing cynical games and you refuse to admit actual change, because it makes you look/feel smart to lie about everyone being the same. Ironically you are serving the military industrial complex right now, who desperately want "one side" out and the other side back, because they can't control the current side nearly as well, and are very upset about the end of the war. Good job helping them, as false equivalence is a powerful tool in their propaganda belt.

This is how the worst outcomes become reality -- being unable and unwilling to appreciate any good at all.

[_v7gu]

I am quite upset about the war ending in the worst way possible. You talk like the war in Afghanistan "ending" was a good thing probably because you get to live far, far away from yet another region destabilised by US hands. Joe thought Afghans were too dumb to understand backwards induction, and put a nice islamic state over there. Military industry would sure be mad about the existence of new righteous wars to be fought over there.

[criley2]

The idea that the war could have been ended any other way is Military Industrial Complex propaganda. It's a complete and total fabrication that relies on the ignorance of people to believe that just a little more war and death would magically create a stable government.

The Afghan government was always going to collapse to the Taliban. 10 years ago, 10 years from now.

There was no end to this war where the Afghan government resisted the Taliban.

And now you claim that the military industrial complex is happy about the end of the war, when they used their control of the media to throw a two month long tantrum? Ridiculous.

How funny that you in one breath bemoan "region destabilized by American hands" and in the next promote neo-colonialism and forever war. You stand for nothing. The Afghan people deserve to rule themselves and if they want an Islamic state, then your bigotry against their self-determination speaks volumes about your concepts of colonialism and your desire to be their white man savior.

[_v7gu]

>The Afghan people deserve to rule themselves

What now? Did I miss the election? Maybe then Afghans should have thrown US out of the country if they didn't want their presence. Or do things just seem really easy to people who only lived near peace?

> You stand for nothing.

I stand for the rights of Afghans. Do it there, or take all of them as refugees. Your responsibility, I didn't start a war there for bullshit reasons. Just don't be hypocritical. How can cake be a big deal when you can leave people to be thrown down roofs without blinking?

> your desire to be their white man savior.

You come into my region, fuck everything up, and say this when I want you to clean up your mess?

[fennecfoxen]

> used to sell artwork

Yes, and only artwork, definitely not influence. The person responsible for anticorruption efforts, and rooting out any sophisticated, foreign disruptive agents’ access to the White House, by rejecting “abnormal” bids, is a New York art dealer named Georges Bergès. He seems reputable enough, right?

[criley2]

The idea that loser Hunter can sell "influence" into a White House that he has no role in, no influence in, and is actively kept from, is rank propaganda.

Hunter serves this government in no capacity, official or otherwise, and has no ability to "sell influence".

Ironically, anyone dealing with Hunter is black listed from the White House, as being around that loser is a red flag that slams doors shut in your face.

Which of course is far different than say over 20 different foreign governments renting hotel rooms (that they don't show up for, just to transfer funds) from the President's son, who dutifully reports back to the White House to help set access to the President himself...

This false equivalence is an extremely powerful tool to control people.

[harry8]

Is he selling influence? Meh. Is he selling the appearance of influence? What is he selling? How is he making any money at all?

I don't much care about a massive nothing like Hunter Biden. Really. Who does? Anyone who doesn't know and love him personally?

Well people care enough to buy his art for big money which is only the case because of the power of his father. Without his powerful father he doesn't make $5. He's no artist is about the most uncontroversial statement imaginable. Very shady Ukrainian business interests were paying him how much a month for his "business expertise?" More than the annual minimum wage? For no duties? Can you get that job? Can I? Can he if his father is Joe Average? Can he if his father is Michael Jordan, or Robin Williams, or Matthew McConnaughey, or Richard Feynman, or any other superstar achiever who isn't politically powerful with duties involving the Ukraine? Does Joe Biden exercise political actions for money or the money that Hunter gets? I actually strongly doubt it. But I'm only 99.8% sure of that. Does it compromise Joe anyway? Yeah, it looks terrible!

It looks terrible because it is terrible. Claiming Ivanka is worse has just gotta stop. Ivanka is irrelevant.

Claming Hunter is worse than Ivanka if you swing that way has just gotta stop. Hunter is irrelevant.

They both meet the threshold to turn your stomach. Regardless if you love the Don or love the Joe or love both (and seriously, good for you if you do. Things are better if you can bring yourself to like both candidates - I'd like to get there too).

Hunter and Ivanka both stink to high heaven. It is of zero consequence who is "worse" they both limbo effortlessly under any bar of decency. They are both shining, sparkling advertisements with fireworks to kids from disadvantaged backgrounds that nobody cares about "merit" or "cleverness" or "honesty" or "hard work" and that you, kid, were not born to succeed like they were and have through nothing more than ... Fill in your own ideas for what personal attributes comprise their financial success.

If only one of those two turns your stomach you have drunk some partisan kool-aid. The benchmark for the actions of the US president and direct family members has to be higher than "Not actually illegal" Whoever the president may be.

If we have a partisan preference maybe we should work out in advance what evidence would turn us against them. What would be bad enough that we might not support them anymore. So if it should happen we're mentally prepared to turn on them so there's some chance of consequences.

Both of Ivanka and Hunter will be fine. The prospect of consequences for them or the political fortunes of their family members are so far below what would be a good thing their story is only illustrative of how bad and endemic the corruption has become.

But yeah you saw those evil gnomes at Fox/MSNBC are rallying around Rachel/Tucker because, that side is so EVIL ... Delete as applicable. As awful as all that is it's actually less depressing than the reality of it all.

[criley2]

Once again, this is rank false equivalence which elevates non-corrupt outsider acitivity with actual corruption by public officials elevated to high office corruptly.

I refuse to fall into the low-IQ cynicism of both-side-isms.

It's worse for a public servant, with actual influence and power, to be corrupt, than it is for a child of a politician to make money.

Yes, Hunter is irrelevant because he's not in our government.

NO, Ivanka was not irrelevant, because she was a member of our government elevated to have power in our country.

These differences fundamentally matter. And no amount of both-sides-ism or false equivalence will change the reality that public servants must be held to a higher standard than children of politicians.

It is not "partisan kool-aid" to hold public servants to a higher standard than private children, and to suggest otherwise is ignorant and immoral.

[harry8]

Look at what Hunter has been doing and how that makes the President and his office look. Think about how you feel about that. Ivanka is completely irrelevant to that analysis. Ivanka is not a standard of behavior.

Surely Biden's DoJ will prosecute Ivanka for each and every law breaking activity. Why wouldn't they? Hunter is completely irrelevant to that.

Corruption has to go no matter who, no matter where, no matter what, no matter how politically inexpedient. There's plenty of legal corruption. Pick the 5 kinds of corruption you think are the worst for the nation and also are not illegal. It's harder than it sounds but not because you can't get to 5.

Anyway this is ceasing to be productive as is so often the case. "Those guys suck, my team is fine." The disease of corruption rages on with no real change in sight.

[criley2]

Once again, calling it "teams" is false equivalence and is low-IQ nonsense

Public servants MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD than private citizens, even relatives of politicians.

I'm sorry you refuse to accept such an uncontroversial tenet, but it's not about teams, it's basic civic morality.

[_hilro]

> uses his name to sell artwork

Sure, because that's the extent of his corruption.

[criley2]

>Sure, because that's the extent of his corruption.

Definition: Corruption is a form of dishonesty or a criminal offense which is undertaken by a person or an organization which is entrusted with a position of authority, in order to acquire illicit benefits or abuse power for one's private gain

What position of authority has Hunter Biden been entrusted with that he has abused?

What illicit benefits has Hunter Biden gained?

Shame on you for playing this partisan game. Unlike Invanka, who was nepotistically elevated to public service, Hunter has absolutely no role in the American government and thus cannot in any fair sense be corrupt.