[lsiq]

People need to wake up and see that CBDCs are literal serfdom. It is the imposition of micro-level, algorithmic economic sanctions on YOU.

Once they are fully implemented and a network effect has taken hold, we will truly own nothing.

[beebmam]

This is a good example of what someone posts when they're deep into some kind of ideology. Isiq I sincerely hope you reflect on this post and question exactly what you mean by some of the terms you use here: "serfdom", "micro-level", "algorithmic economic sanctions", "network effect". Each of these have meanings that are probably not what you mean, but nevertheless, I will attempt to address this comment in good faith.

Under your assumed perspective, all forms of taxation are "sanctions" or "theft", regardless of how useful taxes are to improving the lives of everyone. Fine, believe that if you want, but good luck building this extreme society; I want no part of it.

It's quite a ridiculous notion to believe that CBDCs will lead to no one owning anything. Have banks in general led to people owning less? I think it's just the opposite; the banking system has created enormous amounts of wealth for everyone. Sure, there are inefficiencies, especially in housing, but there are many, many reasons for that (supply of homes and building regulations/codes, for examples).

Ownership has zero meaning at all outside of a government system which enforces property rights with the power of force. Good luck keeping that government system functional without taxation. Even the US tried to do that a few centuries ago and failed miserably.

I really have a hard time taking your comment seriously by the way you framed it, but regardless, I have tried to keep this in good faith by assuming a few of your (unstated but implied) positions. Let me know if you think I assumed incorrectly

[lsiq]

I will take the risk and give an explanation.

The are two first principles that few fully understand: The first is that we are creatures of commerce - that is how we sustain ourselves. The economy is the total FLOW of all concurrent commercial transactions, and this is conducted via cash & money. For an artistic, but accurate image of the world we live in see this scene from Network (1976): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35DSdw7dHjs&t=89s.

The second first principle is that you are a sovereign spirit in this universe, and so is everybody else. There are no behavioral rules in the natural reality, only in the social reality. The rules, symbols, ideologies, religions, and institutions exist to manipulate other people's behavior and concentrate cash flows in the great system that is the economy. But in the pure state of nature, it really is only you.

The cash flows concentrate as the more capital you start with the more you can acquire. The precious few people who reach the "Center of Cash Flows" ultimately do so with force; they kill people over money, embezzle public funds, and so on because they are sovereign in their selfish minds. They are not "above the law," the law is simply for other people, not them. That is and has always been the true nature of "government."

But we have governments now that are sophisticated enough that we don't even know their true nature. It's like a laundromat owned by the Triads. You don't ever see the Triads, you don't know who owns the place, you simply go in and put your quarters into the machines.

The logical outcome of our combined individual sovereign states is that there is and has always been a human or some humans who are truly sovereign, who can break and make the rules and are not subject to the rules themselves because there is no higher power above them. They are the power and they derive that power from their control of the cash flows.

Unfortunately, if we are to form a peaceful society, only they can be sovereign; if everyone behaved in sovereign fashion we'd all be killing and stealing from each other all the time and that's not good for anyone. The sovereign sets the rules of the game that everyone underneath plays.[1]

The problem, as we know from history, is that the sovereigns themselves are a point of failure and we occasionally get a Stalin or Pol Pot there who have no vestigial empathy, and we have a "monopoly government" of total extortion, subjugation, and death.

The own nothing was only a joking reference to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBBxWtKKQiA which has become a bit of meme.

So can you now see how this proposed "database money" is some unknown sovereign person(s) wanting to take all your money?

[1] Maybe centuries from now can reach a state where everyone understands their sovereign states but chooses cooperation. We could solve the prisoner's dilemma with transparency, as cooperation would win out and we'd all have better outcomes.

[imtringued]

>[1] Maybe centuries from now can reach a state where everyone understands their sovereign states but chooses cooperation. We could solve the prisoner's dilemma with transparency, as cooperation would win out and we'd all have better outcomes.

Or you can introduce -5% negative interest on cash today and end this debate without having to wait centuries.

[lsiq]

That may increase the velocity of money, but it also will drive up prices of liquid assets like index funds as those assets replace the store of value function money.

Although my post was more about cleaning up corruption via transparent and verifiable government bookeeping, etc.

[walterbell]

The phrase "You will own n_t_i_g" is a form of negative hypnosis. People should stop repeating it, before a genie jumps out of a bottle and grants their "wish".

Try some of these phrases instead:

  Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
  Internet improves transparency.
  Local trade builds trust.
  Citizens can audit tax expenditures.
  Finance is built on contract law and consent.

[chinathrow]

> we will truly own nothing.

So cash to the rescue?

[walterbell]

Plus local bricks & mortar transactions where human trust is still a factor.

Circulate precious metals locally, which have some intrinsic value above fiat currency.

[teh_infallible]

Crypto to the rescue! It is a mistake to conflate a CBDC or a fiat-based stablecoin with an actual cryptocurrency. (I will refrain from shilling a specific one.)

[chinathrow]

It's a mistake, that (any) crypto would solve any of the issues at hand.