[ileight2]

Everyone knows damn well enough that internal politics can either make this story shine like a diamond, be pushed into a black morass, or everything in between. Internal politics supersedes all best practices in any country, market, or decade

[glitchc]

Actually I dislike it intensely. Politics always gives rise to the most mediocre ideas.

[pc86]

Such a cop out response. "Politics" is interacting with your peers, your superiors, clients, vendors, etc. It's being able to articulate why your ideas are better from technical, organizational, and/or business perspectives. When you have ideas that shine in one of those categories but are absolute shit in the others, or when you have decent ideas but are terrible to work with, it's much easier to just get defensive and say that it's "politics" that made the "mediocre" (but better-suited) ideas rise to the top.

[mek6800d2]

Wow! I think we would all like to come work for that perfect organization where you've found a place. Perhaps I am the only person in the world who has ever heard the phrase "office politics", but, in my experience, as ileight2 says in an earlier comment, internal politics can supersede any other consideration (including money!) in any country, market, organization, and time period.

I've found myself, peers, superiors, etc. to be on bell curves with respect to sharpness, being open to new ideas, articulateness, being able to see through buzzwords and BS, etc. Some people are good in some areas and not quite as good in other areas. Pair a "used car salesman" peer (articulate, not so bright, looking to their own advantage) with a "gullible buyer" superior (not so sharp, can't detect that they're being played) and your "better-suited" ideas that rise to the top truly are mediocre, bad, or outright wrong with respect to whatever characteristic "better-suited" applies. Of course there are examples of good ideas being well-received and acted upon, but don't pretend that only the cream rises to the top or that there are only isolated instances of the dregs rising to the top.

[alienthrowaway]

Communicating your ideas well and convincing people you're right are both valuable skills that can be used or abused (which is when they are derided as "politics"). Engineers who do not master these skills are putting a cap to their career growths, if they desire to be anything other than ICs.

I say this as an introvert and as a person who chooses words carefully to reflect my best guess at the truth, which non-engineers commonly mistake for lack of confidence in product/estimate/my ability. Dealing with architects (or even seniors) who can't sell their vision or opinion and/or fail to amicably disagree on technical issues is always a painful experience. It does not have to be that way.

[cutemonster]

It seems people here mean different things with the word "politics" -- to some, it means ~ manipulation, to others, effective communication?

And then of course people disagree about if it's good or bad or normal?

> Engineers who do not master these skills are putting a cap to their career growths,

Maybe can make sense for an organization to give everyone some practice in communication and presenting ideas -- to give the good ideas better chances (also if the idea person initially wasn't a good communicator)

[cutemonster]

> Everyone knows

New university graduates don't, at least I didn't :-)

And they can stay clueless for many years, if they're a bit shielded from office politics by a caring manager