[dwolfson20]

Without government to pay for the roads citizens drive to their businesses, and the infrastructure that gives them water and temperature moderation, and 1,000 other things that are essential to provide for functioning commerce, citizens wouldn't be making so much money as they do. And I'd wager that effect is worth a lot more than 30%.

[andrewflnr]

The question is, does it require more than 30%?

[dwolfson20]

Maybe. It depends on what we as a society want our government to spend money on. Considering our current demands in this country (no cuts to entitlements), I think it requires at least that much.

[bandushrew]

surely you should have an answer to that question before you start claiming that 30% is screwing you?

[orangecat]

Exhibit A would be the lack of societal collapse during the 90s, when government spending per-capita and as a percentage of GDP was significantly lower than today.

[tghw]

If we're going to cite the 90s, let's not forget that taxes were a good bit higher then as well. In fact, right at the end there, we had a budget surplus.

[bandushrew]

hmm? Tax rates are lower now than they were in the 90s.

[orangecat]

Yes, and I agree we need to raise taxes (putting me in a very small minority of libertarians). But as to the question of how much government needs to spend in order to have a functioning society, the clear answer is "much less than it spends today".

[bandushrew]

I suspect that hinges greatly on your definition of a functioning society.

To be honest I am not following your points at all well.