[thathndude]

Here we go again . . .

But in all seriousness, even if they could ship something meaningful, one wonders if the brand is tarnished such that it makes sense to re-launch with fresh branding.

“Magic Leap” does not conjure up positive images in my mind. Why swim against the current unnecessarily?

[mbreese]

Most people don’t know the name Magic Leap. HN is a (relatively) small bubble. The only place where the name might have a bad effect would be in hiring or raising money. But, really changing the name would be worse in that regard as it would signal that they (Magic Leap) also thought the name was tarnished.

[DonHopkins]

The point is that the name Magic Leap IS extremely and deeply tarnished, in so many ways, and Magic Leap pretending it's not just makes them look more laughably delusional than they already are (which is extremely), just like Trump still believing that he won the election.

I just posted citations and quotes about just the most obvious three ways Magic Leap tarnished their own reputation from the start:

1) the sex discrimination lawsuit and nepotistic sexist bro culture,

2) blatantly ripping off other people's ideas without credit in the patent applications,

3) the ridiculous TEDX talk and fraudulent claims on the fake video "demos".

But that's just the tip of the iceberg, not even touching on the flaws and shortcomings and fraudulent claims about the hardware and software itself. Magic Leap's terrible reputation has been well covered in many tech and mainstream publications, and is known quite widely both inside and outside of HN.

Here's a starting point if you really don't already know about Magic Leap's well established terrible reputation:

Dented Reality: Magic Leap Sees Slow Sales, Steep Losses:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/dented-reality-magic...

>Magic Leap had high hopes for sales of its augmented reality headset. Instead, the richly valued startup has seen slow sales of the device, recent layoffs and executive turnover. In the coming years, competition in AR will likely intensify as bigger tech companies enter the market.

HN discussion of that article:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347

[7952]

For enterprise I am not sure this kind of name branding makes sense anyway. Surely the user experience is going to depend massively on the deployed app and whoever develops that. Better for another company to slap their brand on it and sell it as part of a wider solution. My guess is that consultancy and services is where the money is rather than hardware. $10k per user per year to solve a business problem can be easier to sell than $2000 for a device.

[DonHopkins]

Or are you referring to the ridiculous 12/12/2012 TEDX "talk" that Rony Abovitz performed at the Ringling College of Art, and all the FAKE and DECEPTIVE videos they posted and lied about on youtube, that tarnished Magic Leap's reputation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY

In my mind, they're not as reputable after having given Rony Abovitz a platform to perform that "fudge". Just watch the video, if you can stomach it, all the way through. And read the comments, like this one:

>Nick Steele 2 years ago (edited)

>This is a joke. Take it for what it is. They didn't want to say anything so they basically said "are you ready? READY? ... fuck you".

>After a completely ridiculous intro which includes nano machines humping blood cells and two crack monkeys worshiping a massive block of "demented space fudge" which takes up 75% of the talk until 4:30, right after 30 seconds of literal silence, a spaceman says "greetings" and introduces today's "keyword" which is "fudge", then a guy plays terrible music out of tune and sings half-way into the mic. Then the lights suddenly go out and the crack moneys and space man simply walk away.

>Keep in mind the audience thinks they are about to hear a billionaire explain his new "world changing" virtual/augmented reality technology, then they get this shit.

>The best part is the audiences reaction at the end. :)

Dented Reality: Magic Leap Sees Slow Sales, Steep Losses

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/dented-reality-magic...

>Magic Leap had high hopes for sales of its augmented reality headset. Instead, the richly valued startup has seen slow sales of the device, recent layoffs and executive turnover. In the coming years, competition in AR will likely intensify as bigger tech companies enter the market.

>[...] Magic Leap was founded in 2010 by Rony Abovitz, an eccentric, 47-year-old Florida native who once gave a TED talk in a spacesuit surrounded by people dancing to music in furry monster costumes. [...]

And if that's not enough proof that Magic Leap is a fraud, then watch their completely fake demo, that they originally did not truthfully bill as a "concept video" but instead they falsely and deceptively titled it "Just another day in the office at Magic Leap" and described it with the blatantly false claim that "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now". But since then, the title and description have been retroactively amended, AFTER they got busted.

Magic Leap | Original Concept Video (originally titled: "Just another day in the office at Magic Leap" and described: "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM

Magic Leap is actually way behind, like we always suspected it was:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13894000/magic-leap-ar-mi...

Remember that amazing video of the whale leaping out the gym floor and splashing down? Yeah, it was BS. Magic Leap is neither magic nor leaping:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/09/magic_leap_neither_...

Magic Leap video may have involved more magic than tech:

https://www.slashgear.com/magic-leap-video-may-have-involved...

The reality of Magic Leap: fake demo videos and delayed technology:

http://www.techspot.com/news/67342-reality-magic-leap-fake-d...

Watch This New Virtual Reality Game Turn an Office Into a Robot-Infested Fight for Survival:

http://time.com/3752343/magic-leap-video/

That last Time article above was written BEFORE they got busted, and it cites a Magic Leap company spokesman (and I'm pretty sure it was a man) mendaciously lying to the rightfully skeptical (and eventually vindicated) Time reporter:

>It's unclear whether the video shows an actual game overlaid onto a real-world office space or just an artistic rendering of what the game might look like in the future. The way the gun rests so realistically in the gamer's hand certainly raises suspicions. Still, a company spokesperson confirmed to Gizmodo that the video was authentic.

>"This is a game we’re playing around the office right now," Magic Leap wrote on its official YouTube account.

The game that Magic Leap was playing (and still is) is called FRAUD.

[baybal2]

> The game they were playing (and still are) is called FRAUD.

I felt so from day one. People over invested into marketing usually don't have to show much for the product.

[croes]

It's on the same level as the Hololens 1. So fraud seems the wrong word. Overhyped? Yes. Fraud? No.

[DonHopkins]

Claiming about a fake concept video that "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now," and confirming to Gizmoid that the video claiming that was authentic, then later retroactively editing the video title and description to say it was a concept video only AFTER they got caught and called out with lots of media coverage about the lie, is literally and intentionally fraud, yes.

Microsoft has never made such unsubstantiated false claims or published fraudulent demos about the Hololens. So no, they're not anywhere near the same level of deceptive business practices.

[DonHopkins]

Or are you referring to the way Magic Leap picked up and ripped off so many other people's original designs and IP in their patent applications without giving the actual inventors credit, that tarnished Magic Leap's reputation?

https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augmen...

>Magic Leap's futuristic patent art was copied from other artists' designs

>When Google-backed augmented reality company Magic Leap quietly applied for a patent, it did so with dozens of pages of futuristic (and slightly creepy) scenarios: a social media charm bracelet, a gargoyle bursting out of a box in a store, gamified cucumber chopping...

>Wait a second. That last one sounds familiar. Maybe that's because it's a line drawing of a shot from "Sight," a Black Mirror-esque short film about an augmented, sinister future. As it turns out, Magic Leap's patent art isn't so much its vision of the future as one created by various students and designers. Former Verge-r and current Gizmodo writer Sean Hollister was tipped off to a set of side-by-side comparisons that leave no doubt we're looking at copies.

>If patents are about originality, does this mean Magic Leap is hurting its claims? Not really. A great deal of patent art just shows potential designs or uses for something, in order to make the actual, more abstract claims clearer. In this case, Magic Leap is patenting an optical system that has nothing to do with the interfaces displayed here. Even bringing a copyright claim would be hard and arguably pointless. "Images such as these are setting consumer expectations of VR and AR today," the company told Gizmodo. "We wanted to use the same images to demonstrate what our technology will enable."

>The designers themselves seem ambivalent of their images' rebirth as patent art. Magic Leap appears to have neither contacted them nor credited them, but at the same time, it's showing the world how this futuristic design fiction could work. It's one thing to have someone rip off your art. It's another to have them actually make it real — if Magic Leap can actually deliver on its ambitious promises.

https://gizmodo.com/magic-leap-ripped-off-those-awesome-ui-c...

>Magic Leap Ripped Off Those Awesome UI Concepts

>Magic Leap is secretly building a headset that could blend computer graphics with the real world. Recently, we lucked into a treasure trove of illustrations from Magic Leap about what that future might hold. There's just one problem: Magic Leap didn't actually create all those awesome UI concepts. It copied them.

>The images speak for themselves. On the left of each of these comparision shots, you'll see an illustration plucked directly from this Magic Leap patent application. On the right, you'll find a screengrab from an awesome UI concept invented by someone else.

>Remember Sight, the incredible student film where a man with bionic eyes plays Fruit Ninja with a real cucumber that becomes part of his meal? Same cucumber. Same everything:

>Or how about the Ringo Holographic Interface dreamt up by then-UI-design-student Ivan Tihienko in 2008?

>Here's a augmented reality concept from interaction designer Joesph Juhnke called "The Future of Firefighting":

>And below, one from designer Michaël Harboun and his team called The Aeon Project. "What if you could travel to exotic, far-away destinations while being stuck in traffic?"

>Lastly, two images from "Meditating Mediums - The Digital 3D," which was the graduating thesis for Greg Tran at the Harvard Graduate School of Design. He now designs for Samsung.

>This might also look familiar: [...]

[DonHopkins]

Are you referring to the sex discrimination lawsuit and nepotistic sexist bro culture that tarnished Magic Leap's reputation?

Magic Leap Settling Sex Discrimination Lawsuit with Former Employee (vrandfun.com):

https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discriminat...

HN discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14310144

More:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18209363

The whole point of the lawsuit was all about how Magic Leap's company culture and product plans and demos and self image all revolved around adolescent male egos and sexist fantasies, and excluded women.

Tannen Cambell, who filed the lawsuit, was actually hired for the express purpose of solving Magic Leap's recognized "pink/blue problem", but was rebuffed and ignored. They knew they had a problem, and even gave it a name, but they refused to solve it.

Read the lawsuit:

https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/02/14/magic-leap-sex-discriminat...

>Campbell, one of whose responsibilities was to help Magic Leap with the “pink/blue problem,” had to endure hostile environment sex discrimination while proposing ways, not only to make Magic Leap’s product more woman friendly, but also to make the workplace more diverse and inclusive. Campbell was terminated after (and because) she, like the child in “The Emperor’s New Clothes” who blurted out that the Emperor was naked, challenged Magic Leap’s CEO, Rony Abovitz, to acknowledge the depths of misogyny in Magic Leap’s culture and take steps to correct an gender imbalance that negatively affects the company’s core culture and renders it so dysfunctional it continues to delay the launch of a product that attracted billions of investment dollars. Campbell also raised concerns that what Magic Leap showed the public in marketing material was not what the product actually could do—admonitions ignored in favor of her male colleagues’ assertions that the images and videos presented on Magic Leap’s website and on YouTube were “aspirational,” and not Magic Leap’s version of “alternate facts.”

Did all of that suddenly change after the lawsuit was settled?

Because if it did suddenly tangibly change, then that might be evidence that settling a sex discrimination lawsuit by changing their behavior was a positive signal.

But if they only forked over a big pile of hush money, signed non-disparagement agreements and gag orders, and went their separate ways, and Magic Leap didn't actually change their culture, then I don't think you could consider it positive sign or a constructive settlement for anyone other than the woman who was paid to keep her mouth shut.

Quotes from the lawsuit:

>Campbell met September 28, 2016 with Magic Leap CFO Henry and Head of Operations Tina Tuli for a conference call with the CFO and leadership team at R/GA, an award-winning international advertising agency that was Magic Leap’s advertising agency of record. During the call, Henry said of the product under development, “I’m sitting here between two beautiful ladies. They’re not going to want to put a big ugly device over their pretty faces. And I have an office with glass doors, I don’t want people to see me with these beautiful girls with ugly things on their faces.” Later, one of the male R/GA executives on the call asked Campbell if Henry frequently made sexist comments like he had made. A female executive at R/GA also was offended by Henry’s remarks.

>As an example of more egregious comments, Campbell told Abovitz of the “Three Os” incident and Vlietstra’s lack of any meaningful discipline in response. As an example of unconscious bias, she told him of an IT employee who was helping Campbell a new logo into the email system. Cognizant that she was taking up a lot of the employee’s time with minor changes to get the logo “perfect,” Campbell apologized for taking up so much of the employee’s time, to which he responded, “Oh, don’t worry, I get it. You’re a woman and you care that things look pretty. I’m a man. I just get the work done.”

>Euen Thompson, an IT Support Lead, on November 16, 2016, gave a tutorial to a group of seven new hires, including two women, how to use Magic Leap’s IT equipment and resources. One woman asked Thompson a question in front of the group and Thompson responded, “Yeah, women always have trouble with computers.” The women in the group, in apparent disbelief, asked Thompson to repeat what he said and Thompson replied, “In IT we have a saying; stay away from the Three Os: Orientals, Old People and Ovaries.”

>During Campbell’s last four months at Magic Leap, Abovitz—who always had been pouty and prone to temper-tantrums, began to dig his heels in even more in the face of dissenting ideas and to explode ever more frequently into child-like fits of rage, threatening retribution when he didn’t get his way, felt betrayed or was portrayed publically in an unfavorable light.

>[...] the “Wizards Wanted” section of its website. Indeed, given that a “wizard” generally is defined as “a man who has magical powers,” and virtually without exception images of wizards are male, Magic Leap’s recruiting verbiage contains a not-so-subtle “women-need-not-apply” message.

>Sadly, because Magic Leap seldom hires and does not actively recruit female candidates, the company loses competitive advantage to products like Microsoft’s Hololens. Microsoft, which employs far more females on its team, developed its similar product on a faster time line with more content that appeals to both genders.

>"Eric Akerman, vice president of IT, is a high school buddy of Abovitz. He is a loud and outspoken and several misogynistic comments have emanated from his department and from him."

>"Vice president of IT Akerman, on Nov. 8, 2016, told a large group of people who asked why he voted for Trump that it was 'because Melania is hot.'"

>Senior Engineer Eric Adams sent out an email December 4, 2015 through a company email list serv for social activities for Magic Leap employees and their families, which email bore the subject line, “Board (sic) Wives at home while you are loving it at the Leap,” which stated:

>Hello Leapers:

>My wife is starting a Google group outside of the Magic Leap locked domain.

>It is called “Magic Leap spouses” and should be findable as such.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/magic-leap-spouses

>It is sort of a social meeting place for all the spouses that have been displaced, alone in the daytime and are new to the area, would like to have lunch with or just to have someone local to hang out with when their significant other is slaving away at work thru-out the 12-Hr day. Or are they just nagging you because you moved here?

>Please forward this Email to your wife if she would like to get better acclimated to South Florida. The group is not public and is reasonably private (by email invite/accept) as to not accidentally disclose any Magic Leap secrets.

>The gender-neutral reference to “spouses” notwithstanding, implicit in the subject line and the reference to “your wife” is the assumption — which is not too far from wrong — that all the employees were men with wives who didn’t work outside the home and were “alone in the daytime.”