[rohitb91]

West has become hyper selfish and unaware of their shutdowns in spending and travelling and not redistributing vaccines vs vaccinating kids and getting third shots in. People scared to go out with 10 cases on per cent of the 100k while third world countries have essentially 0 vaccinated.

[fsloth]

This is unrelated mostly to the topic of food prices though?

FWIW as you claim west "has become selfish" can you name a period, say, in the last two centuries when 'the west' would have been less selfish - I mean it looks to me like west has always been 'selfish'. I think as 'we in the west' are generally brought up to believe unselfishnes is a virtue we as children believe our societies express this value in all of our endeavours. As we grow up we realize our rich societies don't really work in a way that would facilitate egalitarianism across whole mankind.

That said, geopolitics are hard and problems should not be assigned to some basic, unredeamable sin of avarice but preferably to actionable things that can be changed.

[fastball]

The "West" has donated 100s of millions of vaccine doses to other countries. The US alone has donated 176M doses. Hardly my definition of "hyper selfish".

[croes]

The U.S. blocked the export of substances needed for the production of vaccines. A question, if I donate after I have had enough am I being selfish? If I donate food after I have eaten my fill, am I being noble or selfish?

[skinkestek]

> If I donate food after I have eaten my fill, am I being noble or selfish?

If you could have sold it instead?

Maybe not noble but also probably kind to some degree whatever your motivations are for being kind.

[fastball]

A question in response to your question: is putting on your own air mask first when the plane cabin loses pressure, and then helping others with their masks noble or selfish?

Giving someone something you have no obligation to give them for free is literally the definition of generous. It is the opposite of selfish.

This doesn't change if you take care of yourself first.

[croes]

You can't simply compare a single person with nations. And you aren't only putting your mask on first, you are preventing others from getting theirs. And if the west if obligated to help the poorer countries is a different discussion, especially of you consider how it takes care of them when it comes to their natural resources. Exploiting with the left and giving with the right, doesn't make you generous.

[croes]

And don't forget the whole patent issue, why not suspend the patent during the pandemic, then fewer donations would also be needed.

[ryan_lane]

Q: Why do the vaccines need to be donated?

A: Because western countries hold patents on the vaccines and we prioritize profit over lives.

[swarnie]

That's entirely false.

The AZ/British vaccine is being provided at cost

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/28/astrazeneca...

> AstraZeneca is one of the shining stars of the pandemic. Not only did it produce a vaccine where other big players failed, the UK-Swedish company has pledged to sell it at cost until it is able to declare the pandemic over.

If countries still can't afford it they are being given away

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-begins-donating-millio...

> the UK has pledged to donate 100 million vaccines overseas by June 2022, 80 million of which will go to COVAX

[ryan_lane]

That's one vaccine and one country, and you're not arguing against my point, but shifting the discussion back to donations. The number of vaccines being donated are not even close to sufficient to protect the countries without the means to produce the vaccines.

Many countries could produce these vaccines, but are not legally allowed to because we're protecting the patents, so that companies can make profit on them. Without patent protection, they wouldn't be the only companies manufacturing them.

It's also strange to say it's entirely false, while giving one example in which the vaccines are being given at cost. Many of the vaccines are not. In some cases the companies are not profiting, in other cases they are.

[xyzzyz]

Why don’t countries with no vaccines develop and produce their own? Ah, that’s right, because they don’t have cutting edge pharmaceutical industry. Now, isn’t it an interesting coincidence that cutting edge pharmaceutical industry exists precisely in those places where most profit is to be made on drugs?

[ngc248]

The west basically "developed" by exploiting/colonizing resources from the 3rd world countries. The west basically pulled the ladder once it climbed up. Now you are wondering why the 3rd world countries can't develop their own vaccines.

[xyzzyz]

Comparing how poor South Korea was in 1950 vs how wealthy it is now, can you tell me which 3rd world country it exploited to achieve this wealth?

[Zircom]

Here's a few articles about them exploiting Asian migrant workers. They're both from this year, I can't imagine that the conditions have gotten better over 80 years. Not to mention that with the current state of market globalization, one could argue that simply by participating in international commerce your benefiting from some group being exploited somewhere in the global supply chain.

And as an aside, modern capitalism as it stands right now almost necessitates some group be exploited in order to produce cheap labor/goods for consumption for another wealthier group, and the exploited group is most often a poorer country and the goods/labor are then imported. You're not gonna get very far paying your workforce a living wage to produce things that people making that same living wage need to buy, not with the percentage of profit modern owners/shareholders take right off the top.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/in-south-korea-asian-migrant...

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1001194446/as-workforce-ages-...

[ngc248]

Yours is a strawman argument. I was talking specifically and also have mentioned the west as colonizers.

Moreover if we are talking about South korea, they have benefited from US backing.

"International relations between South Korea and the United States commenced in 1950, when the United States helped establish the modern state of South Korea, also known as the Republic of Korea, and fought on its UN-sponsored side in the Korean war" [0]

Of course they are fully developed now and may not depend on US backing. Even Japan after WW2 was helped by the US in reconstruction [1]

So in essence unless one of the "developed" countries helps you get a head start, you either develop slowly or not at all. Since all the tech and trade agreements are controlled by the established dominant players

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea%E2%80%93United_Sta... [1] - https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/japan-reconst...

[fastball]

How did the West colonize 3rd world countries if they weren't already more developed?

[ngc248]

The "3rd world countries" resources were plundered and utilized for the development of the colonizers. The "3rd world countries" if left with their resources would have traded what they had and become "developed"

Seriously, people are in colonialism denial now?

[OneTimePetes]

reply at @xyzzyz

It exploited the "we have nice capitalism"-wall build against socialism. Basically all along the border, there was a gradient to be exploited for starting up. I assume alot of players near china are waiting for the same sort of ladder to climb up on, once the 2nd cold war starts.

[Zircom]

I don't know why you're being downvoted, as far as your first claim people need to open a history book.

[ngc248]

Yes, people really need to read history. The statement upthread, "Why can't they build vaccines of their own?" sounds akin to "Whey can't they eat cake, if they can't have bread".

Even if they build vaccines, it is not held to the same standard, for ex: India's covaxin was not being accepted for travel to western countries. The dominant players set all the rules.

Unless we understand why/how we are in this situation, we will keep on making the same mistakes again and again

[donw]

Are you sure about "donated"?

My understanding is that Israel paid well above market to go to the front of the line, Japan is definitely paying for doses... do you have links to authoritative primary sources on this (e.g., not a news organization or activist group)?

(I don't know, so I'm actually curious here)

[KennyBlanken]

What does Israel paying above market rate to "go to the front of the line" or Japan "paying for doses" have to do with whether other countries are donating doses to impoverished nations?

> do you have links to authoritative original sources on this (e.g., not a news organization

...What. The. What.

[hammock]

>...What. The. What.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source

[beebmam]

When has ethics meant anything in international affairs? Sorry to burst your bubble, but every nation is out for its own best interests, which sometimes align with other nations' interests.

[fastball]

Don't understand the relevance of this comment.

[Thorrez]

Rich countries (e.g. US, Israel, Japan) paid extra to get doses first, then once they had enough, the US (and probably other countries) paid for doses for poorer countries.

https://www.state.gov/covid-19-recovery/vaccine-deliveries/

E.g. (first alphabetically (Africa > Angola)):

https://www.state.gov/countries-areas/angola/

>The United States continues to make great strides in its efforts to distribute safe and effective vaccines globally. We are happy to announce our donation of 1,182,870 doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine to Angola on August 24 with our partners GAVI and the African Union.

[donw]

Excellent, thank you!

[fsloth]

Israel and Japan are quite well off and don't need donations. For reference good place to start is observing their nominal GDP (not an absolute measure but good first guess gauge). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

The countries that would need vaccine donations can be generally found at the end of the said list with least GDP:s.

[Hamuko]

Why wouldn't Japan be paying for its doses? We're talking about a country rich enough to be in the G7.

[fastball]

https://www.gavi.org/covax-facility

https://www.state.gov/covid-19-recovery/vaccine-deliveries/

[londons_explore]

It's an odd kind of donation though... Many of those countries are perfectly able to afford their own doses... But are blocked from doing so in favour of being given donated doses, that normally come with political strings attached.

Some would say it's a way for the west to buy influence rather cheaply.

[Thorrez]

What do you mean by blocked? They don't want to pay because they want to get them for free? Or is there some supply problem where sellers refuse to sell to them?

[geysersam]

I think he means thing like the governments forcing producers to fulfill their contracts with them before exporting and fulfilling contracts elsewhere.

[1]https://www.ft.com/content/82fa8fb4-a867-4005-b6c2-a79969139...

[2]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56529868.amp

[fastball]

Which countries are you referring to that have been prevented from purchasing doses and are only allowed to accept donations with strings attached?

[KennyBlanken]

> unaware of their shutdowns in spending and travelling

Plenty of journalists have been covering shifting spending patterns since the early days of the pandemic, and its effects on economic sectors and local, regional, and national economies.

> not redistributing vaccines

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/biden-doubles-us-donation-...

Over a billion doses pledged.

> vs vaccinating kids

...we're...not....vaccinating...kids...yet...

> and getting third shots in

What..."third....shots"....? Boosters for the single-shot vaccines that have turned out to greatly diminish in effectiveness.

Looking through your comment history shows this comment isn't the first time you've been remarkably poorly informed, to put it politely:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28791742

"more kids die from traffic crashes", you say, and whine about how people think you're anti-vax. Nah, you're objectively, provably wrong, as demonstrated by someone in that thread, and yet here you are a day or two later still whining about how we're wasting resources "vaccinating kids."

Nevermind that you seem to think that we shouldn't vaccinate people until more of them die from COVID than traffic collisions (which for many age groups is the top cause of death)?

You are stunningly poorly informed every time you write a comment here.

You are often wrong, have poor logic/reasoning skills, and maybe you are not qualified to be forming strong opinions about the things you are talking about, at least until you make some effort to educate yourself from objective, fact-based sources, instead of just believing conservative memes you see on Facebook because they fit your worldview.