Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by bittercynic 1712 days ago
I don't think this is universal, or at least it isn't my experience.

Context: I'm white, only understand English. At Whole Foods most people look like me, and I understand the snippets of conversations as I pass by. It is overall a stressful experience being there.

When I shop at 99 Ranch, I generally can't understand other shoppers' conversations, and I don't look like the other shoppers. For some reason it is much more peaceful, easier to share a smile with others as we pass by, and just overall a more positive experience.

Just a personal example going the other direction. I don't think there's any deep meaning here.

3 comments

I would hazard a guess that you are very high on the introvert scale and that explains the situation you presented.

In Whole Foods, you might be expected to answer a question or inquiry since your appearance says that you would understand the query. You might even be expected to engage in banter.

In 99 Ranch, your appearance means that the chances of you understanding a question in the interlocutor's native tongue are approximately zero. Therefore they are unlikely to ask. There is very little chance of an attempt at conversation.

Your difference and assumed lack of ability to interact with in any meaningful way act as a firewall, giving you the same comfort you would derive if the store were completely empty and automated to where you didn't have to interact with other humans.

Not a dig, just an analysis and projecting of my own situation and thoughts on it.

I live in Mexico and present as a very obvious gringo. I'm not an extrovert, when I encounter a situation where I really would rather not interact, I can play up the language barrier. My Spanish is mediocre to begin with, so that helps.

Interesting take - you're not far off the mark.

There is at least one other factor, though. At Whole Foods, at least the one near me, a large fraction of the conversation snippets I overhear are complaints, expressions of anxiety, and generally expressions of unhappiness. At 99 Ranch I generally can't understand what people are saying, but on average people's emotions seem to range from neutral to positive. My perceptions may not be a complete picture of reality, but I think they're also not completely detached from reality.

Maybe you perceive, correctly, that the kind of people who shop at Whole Foods are more likely to attack you, socially, than are the kind of people who shop at 99 Ranch.
Maybe, though I've never felt socially attacked at either store.
I think you're missing the forest through the trees, I'm going go guess (I could be wrong) that you haven't lived in another country, because if you did, you'd have drawn upon that experience instead of the one you've described.

Go and move to Thailand for 4 years.

You will probably meet lovely people, be enamoured with all the different 'everything' and probably be in 'awe' for 2-ish years which is how long it takes to get over that 'new' aspect of being somewhere.

Everyone will treat you well - but - essentially as an outsider your entire time there.

While you might have local friends will also likely seek out other ex-pat (if you're English speaking, it'll be from other English nations, not just where you are from) as do the vast majority of the migrants there (ie Chinese will seek out Chinese there) - why? Because you have a lot in common.

For the same reason, the vast majority of XYZ culture people, when moving to a new country, chose that XYZ sub-culture when they arrive.

Obviously, this is not entirely universal, but it's by far more common than not.

FYI I'm literally writing this to you from an English part of the world, but in a tiny community of mostly all native French speakers. They move here for reasons aforementioned.

I think what's really interesting about this is the amount of intellectual hoop-jumping that people do to find an excuse - anything - do deny realities which may be uncomfortable to them.

1) People generally prefer their own cultures.

2) People may have stereotypes of misconceptions of other cultures, but generally don't outright disregard those people. Especially on an individual basis, most people are nice.

3) More people are actively interested in other cultures, than actively antagonist with other cultures, by a wide ratio, with most people being generally ambivalent.

4) Though Xenophobes do exist, so do Xenocentrists, i.e. those who think everything in another culture is 'legitimate, honourable, even spiritual' while the local culture is not. You can see this in the West among those who defend utterly barbaric practices in other cultures (that would never, ever be tolerated 'at home') under the guise of some kind of cultural premise. For example, I remember a David Cameron interview where he was defending the Taliban, i.e. a progressive human rights campaigner glossing over the deeply disturbing and violent practices of groups in that part of the world. It's far to easy for all of us to trivialize broad aspects of foreign culture, that's nothing new, but to do it in a way that diminishes horrifying elements I think is evidence of Xenocentrism.

Edit: ** big caveat of course this dynamic changes a bit when you have some kind of hyper-nationalist leader, or maybe an issue with migration, in which tensions are inflamed etc. etc..