[erdo]

Moved from the UK to France after the Brexit vote (the last chance to easily move my family to another country and have my kids grow up as Europeans with the ability to work and live in the EU country of their choice, access low cost or free university education etc.)

I'm a contractor and felt reasonably sure I could find work as an android developer in most large cities - Paris is also close enough that if things really went sideways I could commute to London for work. That turned out to be true, although the rate for developers is a little lower in Paris (and now I work remotely from Paris for a UK company anyway).

Finding an apartment was one of the hardest things, in the end I had to pay someone to find us one. Dealing with all the admin was pretty tough, but visa wise it was straight forward (because it was still within the EU). I hired an accountant to set me up a small business and do the tax work (exactly the same as I had done in London). I also pay another accountant to handle the personal tax (it got complicated for a while because some of my income was UK based and the UK and French financial year is different)

I think I underestimated how much french language skills would help, but also underestimated how much my french would come back to me (I studied french at school as a kid) so it worked out.

It was tough at times but I don't regret it one bit, life is better here in so many ways.

Sitting by the Seine on a summer's evening with friends and a bottle of wine is amazing. Try to do the same in London, you'll be moved on a by a security guard because the Thames river side is all privately owned despite its appearances. That sums up the difference for me, France truly is a republic, and it feels like it.

[aborsy]

France can be tough!

Low salaries, high taxes, high prices around Paris area, heavy administration (I don’t wish anyone going to a prefecture!), hard to find information about services, hard and expensive to find apartment or relocate, congested public transport, mono-lingual static culture, hard to make friend with French, public litter and lack of cleanliness, periodic strikes, small apartments (in EU in general), complexity of system, no-skin-in-the-game nature of public system produces a lot of dysfunction everywhere, etc.

I for one gave up!

[lm28469]

Disclaimer, I'm French.

It's tough but it's a reminder that every country have their quirks and identities. People seem to imagine that moving from California to Texas is the same as UK to France or Greece to Germany, but it isn't.

It's relatively easy to physically move but getting integrated is a whole other story. I moved from France to Germany, salaries aren't crazy here either, I pay more tax, bureaucracy is equally complex, and people are just different, culture plays a big role. People underestimate how conditioned we are from birth to things like philosophical/political views, ways of life, humour, &c. and even language, no matter how long you'll learn a language you'll never be able to express yourself as naturally as a native (I'm not talking about ordering a beer or filling tax reports, but more on an emotional side, having deep discussions about complex topics, &c.) and tbh I like it that way. I'd say it also is extremely dependant on which part of the country you move to, big cities are hell almost universally, Berlin is an open dumpster but take the train for 2 hours to Hamburg and it's much cleaner, on the flip side it's much easier to meet peopel in Berlin than Hamburg. Same thing with Paris and Strasbourg for example

Small apartments, regular strikes, the public system, they all take their roots in French history; the good, the bad and the ugly.

Moving to another country is a chance, but it equally is a sacrifice

[erdo]

Well, this is true. Some of those things are also true of London though.

Re the admin (to get set up on the health care system etc) everything does need things like original birth certificates etc. And I spent several days going in person(!) to an office somewhere to deal with it (but that's mainly because my french is not really good enough to deal with things like that on the phone easily)

I think if I was on my own here, loneliness would have been a real issue until I had decent conversational french. (I moved with my family though, so it's less if an issue for me)

[CodeGlitch]

> with the ability to work and live in the EU country of their choice,

I have to ask what is stopping someone in the UK from doing that post-Brexit? I imagine there's more paper-work, but that doesn't sound like a hardship? Feels extreme to move your whole family just to reduce the minor frictions.

Glad it worked out for you though.

[erdo]

It's not really a matter of paper work, you simply don't have the right to move to another country just because you feel like it. Whereas it's a key pillar of EU membership.

As a non EU citizen, immigrating depends on that specific country's requirements, but typically it would be a time limited arrangement, you'd need to pass a language test, find a company willing to sponsor the effort (so your residency is tied to that specific that job, and if you loose it you need to leave), that job would need to be at a certain level (e.g managerial level), the job would need to be in a field where there are national shortages, the sponsoring company would need to prove that it had made the effort to fill the job with a local first. If you're rich enough you can alternatively pay to create a business with maybe 100k capital and employ 1 or 2 nationals on a continuing basis and get your residency that way. Software developers no doubt have an easier time than most given the lack of software devs, but it's not a given by any means.

[cassianoleal]

Also as a non-EU citizen, if you want to move to a different EU country you'll need to reapply there. Rights of work and residence in one EU country doesn't give you the same rights in the others.

[nickd2001]

You can still move to Ireland due to agreement between the UK and Ireland. Once you've lived there 5 yrs you can apply for citizenship. However, who knows how long this will remain for especially if UK breaks up

[hackpert]

About the bit regarding you possibly commuting from Paris to London for work, I'm curious - how would that even work? Would you go through customs every morning/evening? Has anyone here done this?

[erdo]

Ahh I see what you mean, it would typically involve staying in a London hotel a few nights a week. Maybe traveling in on Monday mornings, and leaving on Friday afternoon.

I do have a British passport still, and I have a french residence permit, so in both directions it's fairly simple anyway (and the Eurostar is almost like taking a regular national train but it's a good 2-3 hours). Taking a flight is a bit more hassle and terrible for the environment (but cheaper).

About 20 years ago in London I worked with a guy who commuted from Greece(!) to London once a week. London salary, worked from home on Mondays, came in on Tuesday morning, budget London hotel on Wednesday and Thursday night, and back to a big house in Greece for the weekend.

[Sholmesy]

It's somewhat common. The Eurostar (train) from Paris takes you to central London (Kings Cross) in just over 2 hours.

Doing it every other Monday/Friday is not uncommon.