[tinbad]

Not sure I understand the appeal. It’s still a derailleur, isn’t it?

Lots of (higher end) bikes moved to internal hub systems like Rohloff [1] that have proven to be very reliable, maintenance free and (other than higher upfront costs) are superior to a derailleur in almost every way.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohloff_Speedhub

[wolverine876]

People are responding that the Rohloff is 'unserviceable'. I can say here what I can't explain to most cyclists I know: it's unhackable. I don't like disc brakes for the same reason (but at least there it's worth the trade-off for safety).

I love that bikes are made of simple mechanical parts about which, at a glance, I can at understand what they're doing, how they're doing, what's wrong, and what needs to be done about it. And I love that these simple mechanical parts can make me move, with just muscle input, so efficiently. I don't want internal hub systems, motorized derailleurs, hydraulic brakes, batteries, etc. They ruin part of my fun.

(Also, an aside about first-mover influence: Someone in France beat someone in the UK to the bicycle by a (few years?) in the mid-19th century, and we still talk about derailleurs, panniers, etc. Computers will still be described in English terms for another century.)

[vizzier]

As I understand it their downsides come in a few forms

- They are heavier than a derailleur system, which probably matters less with electric assist

- They generate slightly more friction in the mechanism particularly before being "broken in"

- They are not as user end serviceable

This combined with the price is probably what has prevented their mainstream infiltration in a big way (yet)

[PaulDavisThe1st]

Rohloff's seem great (my brother rides one), but they do have one major downside: they are essentially unserviceable by the user. Yes, I know they don't tend to need much maintainance, but when they do, if you are not close to a Rohloff facility and/or Rohloff-experienced mechanic, you are screwed (for a while).

[hinkley]

With an external derailleur, I could train you how to change out the gear set on your bike. Sure you might need to wait for a special wrench or two to arrive in the mail, and futzing with chains has gotten harder every time we added another gear in the rear, but you can do the math and decide if it's cheaper for you to take it to a mechanic. Personally I think people change their minds over time about what the correct gears are for them, so if you do it once, you'll probably do it at least twice.

And some people buy extra cassettes so they can change it up on a whim (based on where they're riding and with whom) in a matter of minutes. Being able to change your mind is the primary advantage of being able to do it yourself.

You can't change gear ratios on a Rohloff yourself, under any conditions, and the damned thing is part of your wheel so there's no swapping them either. Wheels have always been the hardest part of a bike to assemble properly, and the next two are headsets and bottom brackets. Simplified bottom brackets designs stopped being specialty hardware over 20 years ago, and headsets 10 years ago, so the wheel is now by far the most technical part. And you just welded your gear ratio choices to your wheel.

The downside of front and back chain rings was that you often didn't have 2 times Y gears, because there were overlaps, and if you or your bike manufacturer were not careful, sometimes exact overlaps. Having a 95:1 and a 96:1 ratio is useful when you are struggling to keep up with the guy in front of you and you need just a tiny bit lower gear, but you have to do a double gear change to accomplish that, and in the old days especially you might miss, so there was a non-zero chance that instead of keeping up by downshifting, instead he drops you while you swear at your derailleurs. Plus to even know that you practically had to print out your gear ratios and stick them on the neck of your handlebars (and I knew people who did) because if you're that tired, you aren't doing gear ratios in your head or from memory. Two 48:1 gears are just wasted much of the time, even despite this failure mode.

The Rohloff at least is going to be 14 gears, all unique and all sorted so you just need one click to spin faster or slower, so that is probably about as useful as 16 gears. 18 is a stretch, but I could see an argument, so 14 is probably 'enough' for most people (though I bet they'd sell more at 15).

But if you switch from rides on mostly flat terrain to hilly terrain and back, you're gonna need two rear wheels. And if you're on a trip you'll have to bring both if you're not sure, instead of throwing a wrench and a second cassette into your luggage. And if you're on a cycling tour you can't really bring two wheels, so going plains to mountains means compromising.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

> With an external derailleur, I could train you how to change out the gear set on your bike.

Probably unnecessary. I just rebuilt my wife's campagnolo chorus rear derailleur, interchanging a problematic body and changing the arm length.

I also rebuilt her cassette, to give better ratios to match the new compact 50x34 set I had just installed, and to avoid jumping due to chain wear. That was after switching from 2006 era bar end shifters to 2011 bar end shifters.

In short, I am the specialist wrench you've been waiting for :)

[mc32]

This mechanism must also reach a temp of 100C to reset. They say it will be insulated so as not to burn a rider’s legs.

What kind of energy does it need to heat up and deform for each time you want to change gears?

What risks does reaching those temps introduce where before there were no heat related risks?

[FpUser]

>"Lots of (higher end) bikes moved to internal hub systems like Rohloff"

Those would be "higher end touring / commuter bikes. Road / racing bikes use motorized derailleurs like Shimano Di2 on high end. Rohloff and other internal gear hubs introduce noticeable resistance which is ok for regular riding and not really acceptable for road / race.

[hamishtilde]

Gearboxes are seeing a little bit of usage on Mountain Bikes, this is largely around moving weight to the 'sprung' part of the bike to improve suspension performance and also protection/maintenance advantages They still have resistance/efficiency and cost disadvantage though https://pinion.eu/en/

[hinkley]

Think you meant unsprung weight, yeah? The Pinion system seems to move a lot of complexity to the bottom bracket, which is generally on the unsprung part of the bike, the same as you would move weight away from the wheels on a car so they can stay attached to the road more of the time.

[asdff]

It's not like derailleurs are plagued with issues or costly maintenance as it is. It takes a lot of riding to knock them far enough out of spec where its a problem, and a tuneup at a bike shop is like $25. Pay that once a year and you will have like zero problems with your bike unless you crash it badly. If its a matter of protecting the derailleur from damage like on mountain bikes, you can install a guard for a few bucks.

[Valgrim]

I see them useful for winter biking in the city, where corrosion and dirt is the biggest problem.

[asdff]

Most people who I've seen winter biking are riding some beater $100 used mountain bike into the ground during winter over a nice bike. Remove the derailleur, and there are still a lot of components all over the bike that will get fouled up with corrosion, dirt, oily sludgy snow, etc, so its better to ride something disposable during that season.

[Valgrim]

I agree. My personal experience is that the chain and derailleur are by far the most fragile parts of the system (disk brakes are probably quite fragile too, but regular caliper/cantilever/v-brakes are not much affected by corrosion.) but on cheap bikes, chains are easy to replace and derailleurs have a lot of tolerance. So just cleaning them regularly and oiling them is generally good enough.

Some specialized winter bikes use a belt instead of a chain, but I find those too expensive, hard to service and maintain.

[ubu7737]

You can replace a derailleur hanger on a modern bicycle for about $10 or less. This is the part that bends on a right-side crash.

[pengaru]

It's hard to beat the efficiency of a good chain drive.