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by Rexatron 5432 days ago
As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nights just to get the energy out.

Yes, I did well in school while I was on it. Yes, I stayed out of trouble when I was on it. But I was not myself. I felt as if I were on drugs. I did not learn "how to learn" or "how to get things done" without being on drugs. When I finally kicked the habit in college, I was a mess. I couldn't do anything that took more than 30 seconds of concentration. I had to learn how to live life without drugs. For a condition I may or may not have had. It took me to more years to finish my last semester of college because I could not function. Years later I’ve relearned what I should have learned as a child – how to discipline myself and get things done.

The DSM IV/V has a very loose definition of this "DISORDER". The genetic basis I don't doubt, because at one time in our evolution it was a selective adaptation that made us better at hunting, preventing accidents, and trying new things. Now, because our society resides in cubicles, desks, and institutions, it's a "DISORDER" that needs to be medicated.

Just be good parents and give your child an environment where his or her differences can thrive. Find some open space and let them loose for several hours a day. Homeschool them with creative and intriguing lessons tailored just to them. Do whatever you can to allow their abilities become advantages rather than brand it a disorder and ruin their self-esteem by sending them to the nurse twice a day to be force-fed a pill they don’t need.

Don't just give them a pill. That's lazy and detrimental to them in the long run.

The over-prescription of these drugs is epidemic and I can't stand by and watch comments say :

"Each year a parent doesn't take actions is a year lost for a child" to convince people to medicate children for what used to be a genetic advantage (and still is given the right environment).

Each year a parent doesn't take actions to provide the right environment for their child's natural ability to thrive (rather than be told to have a disorder) is a year lost for that child.

7 comments

What are you saying, that people should build corralled pens for children so that they can 'thrive' on their natural ability to bounce from left to right and generally moving about a lot but accomplishing nothing?

Your appeal to emotion argument is detrimental to all those who are (through prejudices like yours) denied treatment for what is an actual, physiological brain defect. 120 mg is a lot, it may have been too much for you, or you may not have ADHD, I don't know. But denying that a disorder exists because you had a bad experience is intellectually dishonest and holding back the treatment of hundreds of thousands if not millions, and social acceptance of treating it.

The science is clear on this point: ADHD exists, it is treatable, and the quality of life of people who have it is improved significantly with medication and behavioral therapy. That methylphenidate works has been widely proven scientifically, and its effects have been studied for decades. It's true that we don't know everything about it, and we will need further studies for decades, but that doesn't take away from the dramatic improvements in functioning that many people get from it.

Your 'argument' seems to be based on 'But I was not myself.'. I'm sorry that you apparently feel that there is some sort of mystical 'true self' that is somehow different when your neural functioning is chemically improved, and I hope that until you come to terms with reality you can live a productive life and be generally happy. But until then, don't be the crab at the bottom of the bucket.

How can you decouple self-image from "quality of life"? Presumably how someone subjectively feels is an important part of quality of life, not just objective things like their income levels and job security; someone who's really good at school but doesn't like themselves anymore isn't exactly having a high quality of life.

I'm not particularly up on ADHD research, but in antidepressant research this is now widely taken seriously, that the goal of antidepressants has to include improvement in subjective wellbeing, not solely reduction in suicide risk. Even if you don't care about subjective assessments (which, increasingly, psychiatrists do), there's also the practical reason that patients who don't like what a particular drug does to their personality are much less likely to continue using it as prescribed, making it important to find a match that the patient is comfortable with the effects of (unfortunately that's still mostly trial-and-error, because the effects of drugs vary a lot between individuals in thus-far poorly understood ways).

[Fwiw, I don't personally care much about a mystical "my real self", but I do think psychoactive chemicals can change one's personality---in fact that's almost definitionally what they do, to the extent that "personality" is just the aggregate of how the brain works---and that some changes can be ones I like living with, and others can be ones I don't like, so I'd prefer not to take drugs that change my personality in ways where I don't like the result.]

Is that so? I don't recall saying those things.

I did say an open space for them to get the energy out, so that when they return they are more able to focus on 'accomplishing things'. Whatever it is kids need to accomplish other growing up.

Yes, I'm biased (not prejudiced). Due my experience, which I stated clearly.

Taking a set of traits that don't work in modern society and calling it a DISORDER is the only intellectual dishonesty here. Prescribing meds for a behavioral traits that people don't approve of is selfish, controlling, and a true detriment to those kids.

That ADHD (which I did not deny exists, I stated it did, and that I believed it's genetic basis) is treatable by Ritalin/Adderall I don't deny.

I just happen to know the long-term effects are detrimental. Studies happen to back me up.

Studies also show behavioral therapy is as good as medication. It's far better for kids as they get to learn about life without being on drugs. They learn real life skills rather than brute force concentration through drugs.

"I was not myself" is true. I was drugged with something that crams neuro-chemicals into my brain making me into something other than I wanted to be.

There is no true self (especially mystical). There was a natural me and a me on Ritalin (which was very different). I would have preferred to learn the life skills I needed and haven't learned until recently. I had the experience for a reason and often I believe it is to let people know about it and possibly protect other kids from what I experienced.

Sincerely, -Crabby McGee

The human brain is arguably the most complex system on the planet. We have a very poor understanding of how it functions so we fall back to the old, "is this useful metric" and DISORDER only refers to things that are less than optimal.

There are plenty of environments where a mild level of ADHD is not an issue; unfortunately children are expected to be able to sit and concentrate for several hours a day. In that context the term DISORDER is appropriate which is not to say it can be compensated for just that there is an issue. There are plenty of ways to compensate for poor vision and people are starting to think of mental issues in those terms. Unfortunately it's harder to change the environment or give extra attention than a cheap external prosthetic. Thus, drugs are often the first choice, even if they have minimal value or just trade harming the user to help those around them.

120mg as a kid, damn thats a lot.

I took 90 mg as an adult and that was the absolute maximum allowed (in Iceland).

It did me a lot of good but thankfully I am off them now and doing pretty well, meditation is a great substitute.

1988 was the heyday. It was still a 'miracle-drug' at that point. I was the experimental group.

They dialed it down after year or so, although I didn't notice much change.

Once I heard on the NPR radio that children metabolizes stimulus based drug (for ADD) differently than adults. Adults experience euphoria feeling.
"Just be good parents and give your child an environment where his or her differences can thrive. Find some open space and let them loose for several hours a day. Homeschool them with creative and intriguing lessons tailored just to them. Do whatever you can to allow their abilities become advantages rather than brand it a disorder and ruin their self-esteem by sending them to the nurse twice a day to be force-fed a pill they don’t need."

Let me guess: you aren't a parent, are you? I grew up on Ritalin and my son is wayyyyyy more ADHD than I am. He was prescribed adult doses of ADHD meds at five. We homeschooled after he was sent to the principal's office in kindergarten something like 10 times in a three week span (and that was while he was medicated).

I know both sides of this story and, to be frank, I'll avoid taking advice on parenting from someone who has no experience in that situation. I'm not trying to be rude but it's just like a deep developer who has only worked on solo iPhone app projects giving a talk to 1000s of people on how to effectively manage a team of 100 developers on 3-year long projects.

120mg? Damn, that's incredible, I was on 40 a day ish throughout school in the form of Ritalin.

I've had the same issues in 6th form and university, failed my degree. In part due to lazyness and drinking, but also because I simply cannot "absorb" knowledge from sitting in a lecture hall watching someone speak for ages. I learn interactively - I did amazingly well at practicals and projects where I had a constant feedback loop (such as debugging a robot), but lectures and exams I feel are an exceptionally perverse way of learning things.

Talking generally, most mental disorders when not extreme are genetic advantages in the right situations. Bipolar and creativity, asperger's and certain forms of engineering, even milder forms of ADHD with right people skills can be pretty useful for the some types of entrepreneurship.

I am quite sure there are many more forms of mental illness that have not been documented. Heck, even I have had few very strange quirks since childhood, which I have never found documented anywhere.

I agree. I was a quirky, energetic, and mischievous child. I caused trouble. I was a brat (and still am sometimes).

I'm glad to have my ADD, hyper-awareness comes in handy often. Sometimes it drives me crazy too. But I'm learning to be aware of where my mind takes me.

The journey has been tough, but I've learned a lot about myself.

120MG of Ritalin? Sounds absurd.
It is absurd.
That's what came to my mind as well: We will be hearing these "X is linked to genetics" news a lot more often for everything ranging from boredom to our favorite color. Yes, almost everything is genetic to an extent, but not everything is a disorder, especially the brain-related ones (other than profound conditions like alzheimer's or parkinson). Can psychology define what is the "Ideal mental state"? I don't think so (and it's a little creepy).