[cheesecake_luvr]

Can you describe the type of employer that does this? Is it a cultural thing like it is in Dubai? Very curious that this seems to happen in Singapore regularly. I have a very high opinion of Singapore, although I have only been there in transit to some some other place. I especially have a high opinion of Lee kuan yew

[dustintrex]

It's complicated and I hesitate to generalize, but I'd draw two themes:

* Economic: Singapore is an expensive place to live and both parents typically need to work to make ends meet. A foreign domestic worker is the cheapest way to get child or elder care, but it's still a significant expense, so there's a natural incentive to cut costs by providing only the absolute minimum (feed them ramen, make them sleep on the kitchen floor, etc).

* Power dynamics: The stereotypical domestic worker is young woman from a deeply poor rural background, sometimes underage with fake ID (illegal but particularly common with Burmese), who speaks little to no English, is unfamiliar with city living, and knows nobody in Singapore. They are often deeply in debt to the broker who found the job, supporting family back home who will literally starve if she can't provide, unaware of the little rights they do have, and thus very strongly incentivized to tolerate whatever is thrown their way. The employer thus finds themselves in a position of near-absolute power over them, and as the old saw says, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In the case above, where the maid was essentially tortured to death over a year, there was an entire household watching and the deviance was normalized quickly because there was nothing she could do to fight back.

[chaostheory]

> Power dynamics: The stereotypical domestic worker is young woman from a deeply poor rural background

Sadly, it's not just Singapore. This also happens in other places in Asia, especially in the domestic workers' respective home countries. I feel that the abuse is even worse in places where there's more available physical space. Why? Because more physical space allows for more privacy and secrecy. Rape is very common in these places yet it wasn't commonly reported until about 10 years ago. Before, society would just treat this as infidelity. It's a grim subject, but at least things are slightly improving, though still not fast enough.

[AmericanChopper]

This is a very extreme dramatisation. Singapore investigates and prosecutes the abuse of domestic workers very judiciously. The only reason it seems novel is because domestic workers are not particularly common in the west. Here you just get the normalized deviance of traditional family violence.

There are places where domestic workers don’t have the protection of the law. Like the UAE for instance, where somebody reporting their abuse can lead to them being charged with adultery.

[saiya-jin]

No its not, have quite a few colleagues in SGP and the caste system which everybody knows of and often enjoys tremendously is quite something. As as european you have to have stomach for this kind of society to live and raise kids in for example. Everybody has their maid(s) which are paid nothing and often abused in one way or another and tossed away in case of issues.

Yes we can go the usual avenue of whataboutism and name places which are much worse than SGP, but the truth is, SGP is not a democracy and at its core doesn't share the western values of equality and human rights.

But as long as partying and cheap flights to Bali is all you ever wanted from life and don't care about rampart social issues everywhere around you, life can be great there. If you like hard long working hours and have something to offer on job market that is.

[esyir]

Just as all Americans are deeply racist and seek the downfall of non-white races, am I right?

Yes, there are abuse cases, some which are particularly bad. No, this is not the norm, at least as far as my social circle's expectations are, and at least one or two hops out.

Singapore has a pile of issues, and I'd include "not a true democracy" in that, but normalized abuse of maids is not one of them. It makes the news for a reason.

[GDC7]

> But as long as partying

Partying in Singapore? You sure? They are snoozefests.

You get some really awful factors working against you for parties:

1) Some 16% of population doesn't drink

2) No drugs allowed

3) People are exhausted from working

4) Can't fool nature: The best parties are in places which are considered dangerous such as Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Cuba, Panama...That's because the strong emotions and impulsivity which makes a good party are the same that can cause stuff to go south immediately as soon as sombody interacts with a girl in a wrong way or disrespects somebody. People are very dull and emotionless in Singapore.

[EP_in_SG]

I will take a stab at it. When we left, we tried our best to find a good employer to take over our helper's contract. She had a family dependent on her, and the COVID measures implemented by the Ministry of Manpower were making it deliberately difficult for non-citizens to return to SG. In addition, during that time, only citizens with children & senior parents could get helper's contracts transferred to them, as they were deemed to be more in need of helper services.

In short, as another person alluded to with the "reverse caste" comment, here's the rough pecking order as perceived by domestic helpers.

#1 - European or American or Australian employer, living in a condominium in the expat part of town

#2 - Other nationality employer, living in a condominium (expat part preferred)

#3 - Other nationality, living in an HDB

#4 - Singaporean-Chinese employer, living anywhere, but HDBs are bottom preference compared to condos, and "landed-houses" have their own nuances (multiple maids, pecking orders therein etc.)

In our experience, with #4 the helpers are justly concerned about being over worked, under fed and denied sleep. We had an interview where the helper and we were shocked that the work hours expected were 5am to 12pm, with a single ill-willed break for lunch, and the prospective employer had just had a kid that the helper was to look after all day. The explicit interview comment was "when I return from work, you will give us dinner, then I need to work, so you must look after the child until she sleeps". My wife and I just stared gob-smacked at each other after that call, as this was contrary to all the rules we learnt in the training we were given by MoM for employing domestic helpers (the applicant has to pass an online test and undergo training) but apparently common among that cohort.

For those who do not know SG:

#1 Explicitly pointing out nationalities & race is not only accepted, it is Govt policy. They still follow the "one drop of blood" rule from the Secessionist South and this race classification is printed on the NRIC ID card. A single non-Chinese ancestor apparently puts you out of the Chinese category. Source: an uber-driver kid I spoke to who had a Chinese mother & Indian father. Officially, the 'races' are Chinese, Malay & Indian.

#2 I don't like using a sock-puppet, but do not wish to invite trouble for my circa-2007 account. I will answer questions for a day, but will delete the account after or forget the random password.

#3 I am (was?) a big fan of LKY and loved reading both his books. I am cognizant of many of the different internal pressures and divisions within the country and am not being judgmental, this is simply the way it is, and it is a LOT better than the neighbouring countries with their xenophobic and genocidal histories. COVID has hit the country hard, there is a resurgent nationalism and xenophobia within Singapore, and LKY's legacy is a ship steering through treacherous straits, with a mutiny on board, and several prospective captains fighting for the helm.