[hresvelgr]

I have looked at this extensively and other VTTs for an internet campaign, and while it is very impressive, there are a few things preventing me from using this myself.

1. No fog of war. You can create zones that have toggling visibility, but its cumbersome and not automatic.

2. No cyberpunk/modern assets. They did make their stretch goal so this will be arriving eventually.

3. No custom audio streaming. I believe you can play music and sounds but only what came with it.

4. Expensive for players at $35aud. I don't mind spending money for resources as a DM, but there should be a player-only version that's much cheaper/free. I would rather pay $120aud if it meant my players didn't have to.

Currently as it stands for me, the best option for a VTT is Foundry[1]. It has everything I mentioned prior and more. Pair that with Dungeondraft[2] and the mountains of free content packs at Cartography Assets[3], you have everything you could ever need for running an internet campaign. None of these require a subscription and are imo the best bang for buck you can get for a VTT setup.

When Talespire addresses my current pet peeves, I will likely switch, but for now it's just not viable for me.

[1] https://foundryvtt.com

[2] https://dungeondraft.net/

[3] https://cartographyassets.com/asset-category/specific-assets...

edit: formatting

[jonnyree]

Hello! One Dev here.

1) This is an area that needs a whole lot iteration. The current Hide Volume approach has been more of a patch while we figure things out. This is certainly one area 3D has complicated things significantly. Looking forward to diving back into it.

2) As you mentioned, this is certainly on the horizon, we've already started dipping our toes into this area and hope to have an ETA by the end of the year.

3) Audio streaming is also something we're looking into.

4) The pricing model has been in discussion a lot. We're trying to avoid maintaining two different builds, so a player only version isn't something we'd like to do. We have been discussing potential pricing models, but, this is likely a conversation which will resume once the full release is imminent. (Post Early-Access)

Foundry and Dungeondraft are both excellent. They pair great together. Our goal with TaleSpire has been one of immersion into the board. Making the interaction with the board feel tactile and fun. And of course being able to both build and play together. Nothing out there quite scratched that itch for us. I now selfishly get this from playing TaleSpire. We still have a good ways to go however.

Thank you very much for your feedback. I would love to see you join us in TaleSpire sometime in the future once these things have been addressed.

[gverrilla]

Hello!,

I'm from Brazil and have been playing RPG here for 20 years now. I don't know about other regions, but most tabletop RPG players here are not luxurious at all: playing rpg is VERY CHEAP and that's one of the reasons it attracts people. My group has people of different ages and backgrounds, but the chance of them each buying a R$49 (current price at Steam) game to play is zero - we are currently using roll20 and while it's not a perfect software, it's perfectly sufficient for us. Even if TaleSpire looks and feels awesome, by being a paid product I think it will have a really difficult time penetrating this market. Only chance would be some kind of model utilizing free, like freemium - and when there's a payment to be made, it has to be only 1 player in the group. Take note I'm not defending or saying the rationals behind this behavior pattern is good, I'm just telling you it's real and very hard to change. That said, perhaps the target for TaleSpire is rpg players in Europe and US, which maybe have different spending behavior. Good luck!

[hresvelgr]

Thank you for taking the time to respond! I totally understand your concerns about maintaining two builds. When I was considering using Talespire for my campaign I resolved to just buy a copy for all of my players. Another thing to consider which might not be as important, is that my group would also play IRL and that if I base my maps entirely in Talespire it's very hard to go offline with that. I'd love to see a solution for printouts but understand that might not be an express goal. Part of why I like Foundry is that it's very easy to go offline with pen and paper.

[Terretta]

Your #4 is in the FAQ:

Q: Why is there no player only version?

A: In our humble opinion far too many things treat people just as consumers. We'd rather the game was really cheap than remove the chance for someone to discover that they like creating.

You never know, one week a session will be canceled last minute and one of your players might start noodling around in build mode and discover there is a story inside them they want to tell. This is worth so much more to us than splitting the product could ever bring.

Your 1 and 3 are as well: https://talespire.com/faq

[causi]

Website marketing-speak isn't even worth consideration. For example, the dev's actual answer in the HN thread bore zero resemblance to the FAQ answer. QED.

[aidenn0]

Okay I just spent 10 minutes on Foundry's site and I can't tell which operating system(s) it runs on. Almost all of the links just go back to the front-page....

[jfabre]

it runs in your favorite browser..

[aidenn0]

I meant for hosting the server. After searching around I found the wiki which shows how to install on linux.

[jfabre]

The project is still in its infancy, so yeah they're missing a couple of things. I've been building stuff in it for a while and currently running my first campaign in it.

1. I agree with you, but hidden zones are good enough for now.

3. discord...

4. Meh... I think it's the kind of thing that people complain, but will still pay for.

You can't really compare foundry vtt who displays jpegs in a browser with Talespire who offers a 3d environment. It's like comparing a car to a plane.

[dragonwriter]

> You can't really compare foundry vtt who displays jpegs in a browser with Talespire who offers a 3d environment. It's like comparing a car to a plane.

Really, you can't compare Foundry which has rules support and rulesets for lots of games with TaleSpire where any rule support is off in the distance. Its like comparing a plane to a half-scale wind-tunnel mockup without engines or controls. Most tabletop gridded rules systems are 2d, so a 2d display covers the parts that aren't theater of the mind quite well; it's the rules support that makes or breaks a VTT.

[apocolyps6]

> It's like comparing a car to a plane.

Planes can be impressively fast, but the vast majority of my commute/transportation needs are better served by a car.

These are both VTT software. I don't see a reason why one should be above reproach just because its 3d.

I get it, 3d makes everything harder, but tbh it also makes playing the games harder. I can use random jpegs and hand drawn maps and direct translations of existing tabletop content in Foundry. What are my options for making my own content in TaleSpire? Recreate every map object by object?

I can buy a PDF of The Shady Dragon Inn (published 1983) and copy-paste all of the maps over into Foundry in minutes, or spend as much time making pretty maps as I want. Lets not even get into the incredible modding support

[jfabre]

Lookup talestavern and talesbazaar those are fan-made websites that host a ton of 3d maps that were built in Talespire and the game is not even popular yet.

People will be able to build their own minis, tiles and props very soon.

Building homebrew maps in foundry might be fast, it still looks like crap. We're in 2021.

[weavejester]

I don't think Dungeondraft maps look bad by any means. I have both Foundry and Talespire, and while I agree that Talespire is very pretty, a 2D map in Foundry is more than acceptable.

The problem Talespire faces is that it does so much less than Foundry. It's like comparing MS Paint to Photoshop. A visually gorgeous MS Paint, don't get me wrong, but one with only a bare minimum of tooling.

I also get the impression that Talespire's future scope is mostly limited to visualisation. It's not aiming to provide character sheets for a hundred different systems, or automate hit and damage rolls, or provide shop and inventory interfaces, or visual-novel style character popups, or drag-and-drop NPC design, or any of the other thousand things you can get a Foundry module for.

[cthalupa]

>Building homebrew maps in foundry might be fast, it still looks like crap. We're in 2021.

Your attitude towards your competitors is pretty gauche. You dismiss features and the pricing model they have, etc., while they have been incredibly successful.

I'm always looking for interesting advancements in VTT, particularly because I've got a box with a 55" TV mounted in it I can put on top of my table for using them even when playing with friends in person, but as a potential customer, the dismissive attitude you've displayed towards your competitors has turned me off pretty significantly.

[baggers]

TaleSpire dev here. jfabre is not a Bouncyrock employee and does not work on TaleSpire. I'm sorry if you've run into people bashing our competitors. It sucks as there is plenty of room for different approaches in this space (see TTS and battlemapp for two ace alternative 3d vtts). You setup sounds awesome. We've not got any plans for supporting the tv tables so far, but arkenforge and foundry both seem awesome at it.

[cthalupa]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I misread one of his comments - 'I've been working in it' as 'I've been working on it', totally on me!

[jfabre]

I'm just a fan... I do not work for them. I was just expressing my opinion about how I saw the whole space. I've been playing for more than 2 years on Tabletop Simulator and I consider Talespire a very big upgrade that's all.

[cthalupa]

Gotcha! I misread a comment of yours and took it as you saying you worked on the product, not worked in it for your campaign.

[tessierashpool]

I'm a PC in two games right now but DMing zero (and maybe too busy to start), so I've only built a few maps with TaleSpire so far. But I'm very excited about it, and especially the sites where you can share assets.

There are multiple maps built for Waterdeep Dragon Heist, for instance. The modern, web-augmented experience of playing D&D is a huge change from the game's past, and it makes modules and campaign books a lot more useful, since the community can share so many more specifics than ever before. TaleSpire takes that a step further, since you can also now share buildings and outdoor spaces.

In 5 to 10 years, this space is going to be just absolutely incredible. It's going to converge with machinima. It's already begun converging with independent theater.

I'm super excited about this, but I do a lot of front-end work, so I've always hated Roll20. It reminds me of a terrible app I built with Backbone.js, with all kinds of event bubbling problems. Plus, before TaleSpire existed, I was building experimental maps in Cinema 4D to see if I could enable online games with gravity magic. (TaleSpire does not support alternate gravity directions, but it's still way better for this use case than C4D.) So I may just be the ideal target customer or whatever.

[jdholan]

> You can't really compare foundry vtt who displays jpegs in a browser with Talespire who offers a 3d environment. It's like comparing a car to a plane.

I personally love the modding ability, which allowed creating a nice nostalgic middle ground, an Isometric view which works with 2d rule measurements, and brings back memories of old school RPGs

https://v.redd.it/iz4tui9ykou61/DASH_1080.mp4?source=fallbac...

https://www.foundryvtt-hub.com/package/grape_juice-isometric...