[bastawhiz]

"Provably" is doing a lot of work here. Could they screen each of the employees for immunity? Yes. And the cost of that would be high, and you wouldn't get results back for two weeks or more.

And, natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity[0], so it's _not_ unnecessary. Hybrid immunity is "provably" better than natural immunity alone.

0: [edit: not from the delta variant]

[rwcarlsen]

This is actually false and contradicts findings from several very reputable and large studies. See e.g. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

[bastawhiz]

> Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

Did you read your own link?

[rwcarlsen]

Yes - infected+vaccinated is more protected than infected. But infected is way more protected than vaccinated only. If your position is that everyone should meet the highest standard of infected+vaccinated - which is only marginally better than just being infected - then we should be mandating mandatory covid infection. But if your position is that vaccination alone provides acceptable protection, then infection alone already far far surpasses that in both lasting immunity and total efficacy.

[edit] Here is an excerpt from their conclusion:

"This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity."

[bastawhiz]

> But infected is way more protected than vaccinated only.

For the Pfizer vaccine, against the Delta variant specifically.

> If your position is that everyone should meet the highest standard of infected+vaccinated - which is only marginally better than just being infected - then we should be mandating mandatory covid infection. But if your position is that vaccination alone provides acceptable protection, then infection alone already far far surpasses that in both lasting immunity and total efficacy.

This is an absurd argument to make. There's no ethical argument to infect people. And the absolute material difference between vaccinated and natural immunity is literally dozens out of a population of over 600,000. Natural immunity might be "way more protected" but that's speaking in relative terms.

[rwcarlsen]

I agree it's absurd - which is why I wasn't sure why it sounded like you were making it. So since we established natural immunity is superior - why is it being ignored? Apparently it's not part of _the_ science.

[bastawhiz]

See my original comment: proving natural immunity requires money, the testing is slow, and it's still less good than simply also getting the shot. And even with natural immunity, it's only somewhat better in some cases as shown by a small number of studies. OR logic is not subtractive to the social and political problem, it's additive.

Why is it absurd to believe in natural immunity and still hold folks accountable for using the zero-cost, (virtually) zero risk option?

[TheCoelacanth]

Everyone shouldn't be required to meet the highest standard of protection. Everyone should be required to meet the highest standard of protection that can be achieved with neglible risks.

COVID infection has significant risks that rule it out as a medical intervention, even it is sometimes beneficial. Vaccination is virtually risk-free.

[rwcarlsen]

But what about people that have already engaged and benefited from that risk? For many of those people, the vaccine risk is not so negligible compared to the additional benefit they gain from any (much smaller) immune boost they might get. Also, how is policy making "following _the_ science" if it doesn't even acknowledge the superiority of natural immunity. The least they could do is own their disregard and say - we're ignoring some science for [reasons] instead of simply demonizing a large fraction of the population as bigoted selfish backward uneducated scum - which is my interpretation of POTUS declaring war on 20% of Americans - a so called "pandemic of the unvaccinated" in his own words (or whoever wrote the speech).

[TheCoelacanth]

Vaccination has minimal risk and substantially increases immunity even for people who have been infected.

It is following the science to make them get vaccinated.

[bananabiscuit]

I read their link:

> This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

[xjlin0]

This is not published yet -- not even pass peer review... In graduate schools professors often give two papers stating contradictory conclusions. Gotta to find which one is correct.