[munk-a]

Vaccines are still beneficial and the more complicated the rules get the harder the administration of them becomes. Everyone[1] can, without any cost to themselves either monetarily or health-wise, go out and get a vaccine - if you suffered from COVID I'm sorry that you'll have long COVID systems but you'll also be supervaccinated at that point - which is even better!

1. With a few very very specific exceptions that should be respected.

[rwcarlsen]

"because it's inconvenient" seems like a pretty poor precedent to set for governments mandating (unnecessary) medical procedures.

[munk-a]

Nah - the reason mandates are emerging is because people are acting irresponsibly and prolonging an event that's causing extreme amounts of economic damage. We want to get through this so that the country can return to normal economic activity.

The reason the mandates are so sweeping is because Americans are intensely litigious and making them targeted would potentially run afoul of all sorts of laws like the ADA.

[rwcarlsen]

From my evaluation and research, nearly all the economic damage is being caused by said mitigations - not the virus or pandemic itself. So... stop doing the things that damage the economy? People want to work. People want to travel. People want to play. Let. Them. Do. It. A few are fearful and want to hide - that's fine too.

[munk-a]

These mitigations wouldn't be in place if there wasn't a pandemic on - the faster we can solve that the faster we can open things up again.

And this problem might be unsolvable - if that's the case then the vaccine mandates (which do lower risk) will probably become as set in stone as MMR shots which, if you went to school in America, you almost certainly got.

[rwcarlsen]

You mean the shots that provide sterilizing immunity for diseases that have orders of magnitude higher mortality rates for children and healthy people? None of which is true with COVID - and anyone that disagrees can just look up the stats on the CDCs website and read about sterilizing immunity on wikipedia.

[steakknife]

1) Sterilizing immunity meaningless and unscientific: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...

2) Sterilizing immunity is a pointless distraction. Seatbelts don't provide 100% protection in a car crash, surgeons washing their hands doesn't prevent 100% of infection, and having smoke alarms and two points of egress in a bedroom will not 100% save your life during a disaster. In fact, I can't even think of a mandated public safety feature that is 100% effective.

[po1nt]

I'm all for vaccines but all against mandates. Vaccine is for your own safety and won't affect spread rate (that much). There are many procedures you can do to your body that can benefit you or others yet we don't act like it's legitimate for government to force this.

You know you can live with one kidney just fine.

[lrnyc21]

Not true. 1. By not getting vaccinated you’re a potential Burden to the health system and taxpayers so it’s a public health issue. 2. Data shows vaccines reduce spread.

[po1nt]

1) You're burden for many life decisions. You're burden if you decide to smoke, if you decide to eat junk food and you're burden if you don't excercise. Still government should not have power to decide this. 2) So does natural immunity and it's frowned upon

[steakknife]

I have bad news for toddlers who want to smoke in restaurants...

[po1nt]

I hope somebody will pay their tab. The job market for toddlers is bad right now. It's like they are supposed to be reliant on their parents.

[bobthechef]

> Data shows vaccines reduce spread.

So does natural immunity, but this is being suppressed.

> By not getting vaccinated you’re a potential Burden to the health system

This doesn't mean you can MANDATE someone to take the vaccine. This is a violation of medical ethics to use someone instrumentally for the sake of some other good (which is precisely that you're describing).

[munk-a]

1) Nobody (that I've seen in this discussion section at least) is denying that natural immunity is quite effective at preventing spread and complications - though a lot of people are correctly mentioning that natural immunity + vaccination has been shown to be even more effective than just natural immunity (so why not get vaccinated anyways).

2. Living in a society means you can mandate a vaccine - it means you can mandate a whole lot of things. I'm still unable to drive a tank to work even though I probably wouldn't hurt anyone - how unjust is that! Being part of a society comes with rules and requirements you need to follow - even in freedom loving america. There is a way you can leave that society - it is still quite possible. Buying a cabin in remote Oregon won't suffice but you can emigrate to an area of the world that doesn't effectively enforce laws - they do still exist.

So no, nobody is mandating that your body receive the vaccine - the mandate is that if you want to keep living in a prosperous society you need to do the absolute minimum to keep everyone in that society safe.

[tastyfreeze]

The vaccine mandate is ignoring the effectiveness of natural immunity. The mandate is get vaccinated or get fired.