[a_conservative]

Thank you for the post. I can hear the frustration in your writing. Or perhaps, it's my own frustration that I'm projecting on to you.

More and more, I'm wondering about the proposition that the "left vs right" battle we (broadly) tend to engage in is just a bunch of bullshit that we get caught up in. If there are puppet masters in the world, they surely are happy when we fight amongst ourselves.

[nebula8804]

>If there are puppet masters in the world, they surely are happy when we fight amongst ourselves.

History has shown this to be true.

I think the biggest problem is that a generation of both left and right wingers have not been taught proper civics and history of how this country has and continues to operate.

Some of the left is rediscovering this history now and is fighting the right who either already know the history and seem to want to keep remnants of it (probably not a majority) and the other half that has not experienced how others live in this country.

I wish you would have actually addressed any of my points. It seems like it is a waste of time to spend the time to type these things out.

[a_conservative]

I don't have a lot of time to think about this right now, but generally I do agree that the right is learning how to ridicule and using it more.

I'm curious about your association of slavery with conservatism. It's doubly strange since the Republican party is the one that fought the Civil war and supported desegration while many Democrats fought against it. The Democrat party had a former KKK member not that long ago.

I'm not saying that this should be used to invalidate Democrats or dismiss them out of hand or anything like that. I just think it is strange that modern day people aligned with the Democratic Party speak with a great deal of certainty that conservatives are racist.

I've heard and read the arguments for the party switch and I find them to be a bit tortured personally. But, civilized people can disagree about all of this, and I don't want to drag us into a partisan battle either.

Also, my sense of your post is that you are using left and right more along the lines of European usage of left and right. I'm using them more along the lines of American politics. While Europeans might say, "you Americans hardly have any true left at all". I'm more likely to say, "Where are the true conservatives in Europe"

[nebula8804]

The republican party of today is not the same as the Republican party of Lincoln. Completely different ideology. Do you know the history of the parties? I refuse to believe that any actual informed American does not know this important history. This is a disingenuous argument and you should know better.

>I've heard and read the arguments for the party switch and I find them to be a bit tortured personally. But, civilized people can disagree about all of this, and I don't want to drag us into a partisan battle either.

What does this even mean? The history is pretty cut and dry and explains their current day actions. The ideology of the party was completely different in the Lincoln era.

[a_conservative]

I could stand to be more educated, so please give me something to educate me instead of calling me disingenuous.

I am willing to listen to arguments that explain how it is that the Democratic party has been able to shed it's incredibly racist history and instead push all of the accusations of racism onto Republicans. I've read these arguments a few times over the years, and I found them to be very tortured and to raise lots of questions.

Even though, you didn't offer any information to further your arguments, I will try to add one to further mine.

If the parties did switch somehow, how do you explain that Social Security act was passed in 1935 by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.

Should I attribute the Social Security Act to conservatives?

[nebula8804]

Before I go into this, Are you an American? If so, which state did you grow up in?

[a_conservative]

I'm an American who grew up in the midwest.