[dahart]

It might be good to define more carefully what “fair compensation” actually means. CEO vs employee isn’t a very good analogy, IMO. It’s broken for sure, but it doesn’t make a good comparison. Software engineers these days are making very good money and have very good working conditions compared to most other industries, even among other skilled white collar careers like doctors. What’s “fair” is a fairly vague and relative idea.

It might be good to really discuss your value too, which is half of the “deal” you’re compensated for. Even if your manager doesn’t know it, you’re not really being compensated for your hours, you’re being compensated for your knowledge and skills, in combination with your willingness to apply them toward your company’s goals. What I’m getting at is that the company may be happy to offer raises if it sees value, and it may take some communication and negotiation on your part for them to see that value, it’s unlikely to happen on it’s own. The company, and especially bad managers, have a vested interest in framing your job as easily replaceable.

[giantg2]

I mean fair compensation practices. For example, I wouldn't consider it a fair practice to pay a lower rate for a higher level job by requiring consistently longer hours. I also don't consider it a fair practice to ignore policies related to ratings (which influence promotions and bonuses). The least they can do is follow their own rules. I get that some parts of equality and equity can be vague. I think this is a good example of a broken economic system if the position with more expectations pays less. It's illogical and I think it would be hard for anyone to defend it as fair - my manager certainly couldn't.

"Software engineers these days are making very good money and have very good working conditions compared to most other industries, even among other skilled white collar careers like doctors."

I think the compensation and conditions really depend on a lot of things. The median salary for software devs is about $100k-110k and are largely located in above average COL areas. I earn under $100k, have almost 10 years experience, and an MSIS. I consider the money to be ok, not "very good". The physical conditions are good, but the psychological conditions can be bad in some instances (just look at all the burnout).

For example, I know a guy who started at $90k as a diesel electric mechanic with great benefits. That's tens of thousands saved in college costs. Plus you can start working sooner. Plenty of jobs can pay that kind of money, so I don't see software dev as anything special.

I've tried the communication/negotiation part. It didn't work. The managers have almost no power within the large corporate structure. So I adjusted my willingness down to match the pay. If I actually want to make more, I'll just leave (although that's not an option due to constraints in my personal life). Another thing to note is that value is a tricky thing to measure in a IT as a cost center model. For example, how do you value security work?

It's funny, the company has been going on and on for years about the war for talent, talent shortage, etc. It's all just PR for the current employees to feel safe. They won't actually do anything to retain people.

[dahart]

> The least they can do is follow their own rules.

Do you have any avenues to report policy breaking anonymously?

> I know a guy who started at $90k as a diesel electric mechanic with great benefits. That’s tens of thousands saved in college costs. Plus you can start working sooner.

It does happen for sure, but be aware that this is a widely shared narrative talking point that comes from a political agenda. The US Fed publishes statistics about this exact issue, and I was really surprised how big the average difference in earnings is for college degrees - it’s about 2x for an accredited bachelor’s diploma on average across the entire US. It’s 3x for advanced degrees. I thought the average would be maybe 15 or 20 percent, but a 2x average for all Americans is freaking enormous and should not be written off with anecdotes. Note also that the gap is growing, not shrinking, and has been for a long time.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/2019/10/...

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synops...

Anyway, that’s interesting stuff, but beside the more important business of improving your personal situation, and my rantings probably don’t help. It sounds like you’re in a bit of a stuck / bad situation. I’m sorry to hear that and I hope you can find a way to improve it and enjoy your work. Managers with no power certainly could be one of the reasons that managers get petty and pushy with their teams. I know it’s not fun though. Good luck!

[giantg2]

The anonymous reporting is never really anonymous if it comes from a device on the VPN. I've heard they don't do anything about it when it is reported. I might give that a try next time, but I doubt it will make a difference based on what some others have said about past experiences.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of the BLS stuff. I'd love to see some more location specific stuff. It's really not unusual for a skilled tradesman like an electrician, plumber, or mechanic to be making over $75k in my area and yet it seems that many of the Dev jobs are around that salary. Specifically when looking at wealth, I wonder if lifestyle plays a large role. I feel like many of the tradesmen I know like to spend that money on somewhat expensive hobbies and don't know as much about investing (ie college grads generally take a an econ course).

I don't know. I guess I'm just jaded and burnt out.