[sofixa]

> And it certainly has an anti-Tory Remainer bias

And so does reality. Brexit, recent Tory governments are mismanaged unmitigated disasters. Is there anything broadly positive that can be said of them? Vaccination was decently managed, that's for sure.

[Veen]

What do you expect me to say in response? You've stated that your opinion is the only realistic appraisal of the situation. That implies we don't merely disagree in our intepretation of events, but that you understand reality and I am deluded. We can't have a polite disagreement among equals because "reality" is on your side and not mine. Why would I bother to talk to someone who thinks like that?

[ashtonkem]

One can have their own opinion on whether brexit should have happened, but it’s extremely hard to argue that the tories haven’t been handling this poorly.

[Veen]

Yes, one can certainly argue about whether they've handled the fuel shortage well. However, I'm not sure if anyone else would have handled it any better. One way to look at it is that they've left the ball where it should be: with the haulage firms who must now pay more for drivers. It's not really the government's job to ensure that private haulage and petrochemical firms have as much access to cheap labour as they would like. It was always going to be an uncomfortable adjustment to make.

[ashtonkem]

> One way to look at it is that they've left the ball where it should be: with the haulage firms who must now pay more for drivers.

Of course, this is actually sign of governmental incompetence. Yes, haulage firms will need to pay more, obviously. But the process of raising wages, training, and hiring drivers is a slow process. Even if every haulage firm decided overnight to raise wages high enough to attract new applicants, it will take months to train all of these people to become truck drivers. To expect the supply chain to handle just a sudden shock like this was very, very foolish of them.

Oh, and there's a bunch of non-wage stuff too, like Priti Patel threatening to arrest any truck driver who has an illegal immigrant in their truck, whether or not they were aware of them. I'm sure this won't have a chilling effect on cross-border trucking, will it?

Also, it's not exactly like the Tory party is the party of "you should pay your workers more", now is it?

[sofixa]

I'm not trying to convince you, i'm merely stating that it's incredibly hard to look at the Tories and Brexit and come out with positive things to say. If that doesn't match your opinion, i highly doubt you'd reconsider based on an online discussion. Anyone who can overlook everything they've failed at ( be it on a diplomatic, personal or whatever level) - just the corrupt crony contracts they gave for the emergency Brexit ferries or NHS emergency supplies at the beginning at the pandemic and their violation of just signed international agreements by them would be game over for me - either sees things very differently ( e.g. agrees with their generic policies and is willing to accept utter clowns failing at being even remotely competent) or is too stupid/brainwashed/naive/etc. to even consider the reality. I can somewhat understand the first one, but neither can be changed IMHO. And i don't actually care, it's not my country, it's one that's really trying to distance itself from mine, so goodspeed to them.

And note, i'm not in any way saying the other UK parties are somewhat better or would do a better job, i don't have a serious opinion on them. But that does in no way excuse the clown car crash.