[frostirosti]

> do not want to be vaccinated What's the reason for this? The vaccine has been approved fully by the FDA and hundreds of millions of people have received it.

> 2. ... Sure, and people who have had covid and get it again as well. But why risk sick days, lost productivity, severe illness when there's an effective, safe alternative. The capital cost of caring people who get sick with covid is far higher on a per capita basis for those who are unvaccinated.

[LurkingPenguin]

> do not want to be vaccinated What's the reason for this? The vaccine has been approved fully by the FDA and hundreds of millions of people have received it.

It's none of your business why they don't want to be vaccinated. If science demonstrates that COVID survivors have strong immunity, why should they be forced to be vaccinated as well? We do not force people who can show immunity to measles, mumps, and rubella to get the MMR vaccine.

From the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

> You do not need measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine if you meet any of these criteria for presumptive evidence of immunity*:

> You have laboratory confirmation of past infection or had blood tests that show you are immune to measles, mumps, and rubella.

> Sure, and people who have had covid and get it again as well. But why risk sick days, lost productivity, severe illness when there's an effective, safe alternative. The capital cost of caring people who get sick with covid is far higher on a per capita basis for those who are unvaccinated.

You are distorting the science by trying to lump people who survived COVID in with the unvaccinated. They are not the same group.

From Israel: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

> SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

> This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

[frostirosti]

I wonder if the answer to all of this changes if insurance companies decide that covering the cost of laboratory confirmation of covid 19 antibodies or the cost covering the expenses related to hospitalization exceed the cost of vaccination people who may not need it.

If Aetna decided to not cover hospitalization if you are not vaccinated (or I'll give you laboratory confirmed immune), then it would be an entirely different calculus for people.

The argument of "Oh well I'll just find a different insurance provider" doesn't track in the United States either because most people do not have that option. The mandate and the exchange has been almost entirely gutted, so you're left with the option your employer provides.

That's another good point too. The government really doesn't have a lot of say in terms of whether or not you're vaccinated, it's entirely your employer. At the end of the day it's not Aetna/Kaiser/Blue Cross/et al. covering your health care costs, it's your employer. They certainly do not want to cover any unnecessary expense. So requiring employees to be vaccinated is the simplest, scalable, and cost effective solution.

If we're going to point to organizations that have no tolerance for the unvaccinated for diseases other than covid, we need look no futher than the US military: https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/who-and-when/military-membe...

[LurkingPenguin]

I find it interesting that you're talking about ways to coerce people to vaccinate when the discussion here is how you deal with people who are known to have survived a COVID infection and thus have natural immunity. You seem to be conflating the immunologically naive with vaccine naive. Why? What is your intention?

Over 43 million Americans have already tested positive for COVID. I don't believe there's an official count of the number of people who have tested positive for antibodies, but speaking to your comment about cost, an antibody test is under $50.

https://www.labcorp.com/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/individ...

> Labcorp will bill the cost of the COVID-19 antibody test directly to your health plan if you are insured, or if you are uninsured, Labcorp will bill the appropriate government program. The cost of the test is $42.13 and is based on rates established by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS). In the event that your health plan, or applicable government program does not cover the cost of the test, you may receive an invoice from Labcorp for up to $42.13.

Nothing you wrote addresses the scientific evidence, which is that people with natural immunity have protection that is not inferior to that provided by vaccines. In fact, the evidence increasingly shows that their protection is far superior.

Why can't you just leave the tens of millions of Americans who already have a confirmed history of COVID recovery alone? Why do you feel they need to be coerced by the government and their employers to receive a vaccine when the science shows they have higher levels of protection?

[howlong]

The vaccine has been approved fully by the FDA and hundreds of millions of people have received it.

Not unlike Red Bull and Cap'n Crunch.