[virtuous_signal]

> But rarely do I find something to keep the person on, their mind already made up. I respect that. When I close the video meeting, I settle. My mind is racing. “Can I try something to bring the person back?”

It's interesting reading this, as I have always been too -- shy? underconfident? I don't know -- to ever mention my job search to my manager, until I got an offer and accepted it. I worry about it being obvious that the time off I request is for interviewing and perhaps them placing obstacles in my way. I wonder if it's ever a good idea to mention a job search when one doesn't have any offers in hand yet.

[iamthemonster]

The conventional wisdom would be to never mention a job search until you have an offer in hand and you are ready to hand in your resignation letter. If you do mention it, you will be perceived as having half a foot out the door and if your job search falls through (as many do) then you have just telegraphed the fact that you're highly disengaged.

But you don't need to actually mention the job search. If you can put your finger on what's wrong with your current role and you have at least a little trust with your line manager, then you can just say "I'm not happy about XYZ in my role, I want to improve it, have you got any ideas?". And be prepared to bring it up several times.

I don't think anyone is expected to tell their employer they are job hunting.

[arcticbull]

IMO no, it's never a good idea.

Once you announce your intention to leave, you've broken trust with your employer and manager. Why assign the good projects to someone with one foot out the door? If they decide not to leave, was it because they want to be here, or because nobody wanted them? Are they going to leave in a few months anyways?

It's like when your significant other says they want to break up with you - "no, please I can change!" is never the right next step. You can end up together, but spend at least 3 months apart first.

[chrononaut]

It sounds like you experienced a situation where that trust never existed in the first place?

I've been on teams where on more than one occasion colleagues have mentioned to me one day that they were thinking of leaving, and then a couple weeks later when I asked them about it they mentioned that they raised the explicit thoughts of departure with their manager (as well as their concerns that lead to it) with respective changes manifesting that kept them on the team for a number of years.

In the model you mention, it seems like it would never be worthwhile to retain employees who have an offer and are at that point announcing their departure?

Edit: I am not sure why what I am saying is controversial.

Either a person has a trusted relationship with their manager, or the they don't. I've had managers for whom I trusted and others I did not. It can also be assessed on how they treat others who report to them as well as how they speak of others of others on adjacent teams. Concerns can and should be raised over time, and not just bottled up and delivered at the end. A good manager should be probing for them as well.

There's obviously risk involved in any conversation, but I disagree with "it's never a good idea."

[arcticbull]

I have actually told a manager I trusted and it was no big deal, although, in retrospect I don't see any way for this to have benefitted me and a ton of ways in which it could have hurt me.

[lmilcin]

> IMO no, it's never a good idea.

I thought so in the past.

But I have learned to be open about this and so far it seems managers appreciate it. It helps plan the transition better and prioritize closing projects.

I made friends this way.

[tharkun__]

The default should be to just never do it. If you do it, be very very sure that you can trust that person.

One of my guys shared it with me for example and it was totally fine. We always were and still are on great terms and talk to each other from time to time. But we also both 'clicked' from the start. Never really a manager/employee relationship feeling. And while I tried to keep him with us I understood and wished him all the best. He's much happier at his new place now.

Guessing whether your manager might appreciate being able to plan transitions? Forget it! The best you should consider (depending on your level) is to give more notice than the required one. That can be a good compromise but I do hear that in some companies you shouldn't even consider that. But if you feel that they won't escort you out the building the second you give notice anyway than this can be a nice touch. It's a hard decision even then though because you are trying to be nice to your immediate colleagues but make no mistake that in the opposite situation they would not give you more than the mandatory notice period. Even if your manager might want to. HR is HR.

[macintux]

I’ve always regretted not being more honest with my manager 20 years ago when I’d made the decision to move back to my home town but wasn’t ready to pull the trigger. She knew I was getting married, knew we were trying to decide where to live; I could have given her more warning.

If you’re out there, Peggy, I am indeed sorry.

[arcticbull]

I think it really depends on why you're leaving. If it really is simply a physical presence thing, then I do agree, one should be open about that. So consider this a partial retraction. Assuming you're sure of course.

[jamestimmins]

I was once fired after sharing with my manager that I was looking elsewhere. I had other managers at the same company who were safe to share this with, but my manager at the time was not, in retrospect.

Keep it to yourself; it just isn't worth the risk.

[jnwatson]

But that’s the worst that can happen. If you’re prepared that this could be your last day, it is nice to tell them.

I told my boss later into the process when I was sure I was going to get an offer. He could have fired me on the spot, but he appreciated the extra notice.

[ipaddr]

The best thing in the world is to be fired on the day you receive a better offer. You get all of your notice pay while you are getting paid at your new employer.

[seneca]

It's really depends on your relationship with your manager. 99% of the time, it's a bad idea to say you're interviewing. If your manager is someone you trust, and they genuinely have your interests in mind, you can talk to them and they can use their influence to try to solve whatever problem is making you think about leaving.

If you're not confident that's the case (and unfortunately it's rare), it's too risky to make it known you're interviewing. It is often better to discuss whatever is making you unhappy, but without saying that you are considering leaving because of it.

[someotherperson]

I’ve been in that situation with the 1% manager, and it still doesn’t end well. The manager resigned on my behalf after getting “drunk and sad”, which I had to rescind, then that same manager out of shame eventually fabricated a story to get me fired which led to a legal dispute due to the nature of the claims. Sounds fine so far right? Bullet dodged?

Until I applied for another role 6 months later and the CTO knew the CEO of the former company, where overnight I went from completely technical and culture fit to even my recruiter being ghosted by the company.

The moral of the story here is if you’re exiting then don’t really bring it up unless you’re entirely prepared to exit that same day. When things go south, they hit rock bottom and the consequences go beyond the four walls of your office.

[allenu]

I would (and have) kept my cards close to my chest when searching for a new job. I think the employee/manager relationship is a delicate one because on the one hand you're human beings and you develop a relationship as human beings working together. There might be some friendship there. On the other hand, your boss represents the company and will do what's best for the company.

When you're looking for a new job, you're doing what's best for you; what's best for the company is secondary. If you let your employer know you're searching, they'll start prying and trying to make changes to make you happy. That's reasonable, but at this point they may make promises they can't keep. Obviously, if you are unhappy and think they can change things, share those concerns, but if they aren't doing enough for you that you want to look for a new job, then you've sort of given up on them.

[thaumasiotes]

> I wonder if it's ever a good idea to mention a job search when one doesn't have any offers in hand yet.

The modal manager's response is to fire you if you mention it.