[antihero]

This sounds more like dialectics than debate.

If anything "debate" is something private school kids and self-proclaimed "intellectuals" do to grandstand.

Dialectics, or trying to reach a better and more insightful conclusion through collaboration and understanding, is far more productive.

[vendiddy]

Do you know if any good resources on improving at this? It takes me a while to arrive at a shared understanding and isolate any differences in opinion.

[latexr]

Look into Street Epistemology[1]. Anthony Magnabosco on YouTube[2] is a good start.

Essentially, be interested and pose non-confrontational questions regarding the other person’s belief. Don’t argue for your point, have them explain theirs. If you ever reach a moment where the other person says “good question, I hadn’t thought of that”, stop the conversation. Let them mull it over in their own time, your job is done. You may or may not pick up the conversation another day, and either is OK.

Teach someone else this skill and you’ll have conversations where both parties are striving to understand each other instead of pushing their own agenda.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Boghossian#Street_episte...

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCocP40a_UvRkUAPLD5ezLIQ

[mmcdermott]

I would start with Plato. While the works are literary and not verbatim transcriptions of conversations, I think it gives a good view into the process of asking questions to dig into a point, then backtracking.

What you rapidly realize when applying this (as GP alludes to) is that most people simply aren't interested in the protracted examination of an idea. The challenge is to find people who are have interesting thoughts and the patience to work through it in depth.

[haps]

Psychiatrist's Guide to Conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIATzLf-y04

[scns]

https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=28697803

[Gadiguibou]

I never saw it this way, but it sure looks like it!

[Guthur]

Debate has not been some private school grandstand it's at the centre of much of the hard science discourse and rather than the plaything of philosophy such as dialectics.

[antihero]

I ask you this - are you in seek of greater truth and mutual understanding, or to be personally correct, to feed your own ego?

[Guthur]

Amd what about compromising your believes and position means you will attain greater truth. You are naturally assuming that ever side of a debate has merit and i don't see how you could make that assumption.

If I go to argue against someone that the earth is indeed not flat i don't think I'd be inclined to compromise that position.

[rsj_hn]

The problem with that view is that the number of positions with a clear answer like "is the earth flat" is basically zero in comparison to the nunber of positions where your views are either significantly or predominantly incorrect but you just don't know it.

Therefore when you operationalize this type of thinking, you end up holding many more foolish beliefs that you are very certain of than whatever time/purity you save by "not compromising". Thus it's an unhealthy attitude to maintain.

And a good example of why this is true is the cartoonish style examples that have to be resurrected -- like the earth being flat -- in order to provide a single meaningful example. The moment you get into any issue of real import, things become real murky real fast, and it's not hard at all for anyone to find someone much wiser and smarter than them on the other side of the issue.

[Guthur]

The cartoon examples are exactly what are being brought by the counter argument the fact that i may take a position and defend it does not automatically mean that we can't get along and even work together. We can continue to hold positions without becoming inextricably partisan in a wider sense.

Also because I defend a position does not mean that I would do so ad infinitum, I can relinquish my position if your counter argument is stronger.

Obviously if we can't actually act like adults then none of these approaches will work, we'll either become violent or in the counter approach so compromised that are collective position may reflect absolute nonsense.