[KittenInABox]

> Belief that ones circumstances are entirely outside of their control (even if mostly true) is a surefire way to kill the determination and motivation of even the most driven individual.

Wait, so people shouldn't believe something that is mostly true? Genuinely asking. I agree that we we shouldn't absolve people of all personal responsibility, but rhetorically the quoted statement appears to suggest people shouldn't believe things that are true.

[rubicon33]

There are countless examples in life where choosing optimism over pessimism will serve you well. Sometimes, being pessimistic is the “realistic” and “right” outlook, but entirely destructive to personal growth.

So yes, there are times when you should choose ideals that support a healthy mind, like believing for example that life is not entirely random, that your circumstances ARE malleable, and that despite whatever histories suggest your disadvantage you can’t let it control your destiny.

As a collective culture we have swung way too far toward this idea of explaining away everyone’s situation based on factors outside of their control. I’ve heard it used to justify some truly disgusting behavior. The truth is that someone’s lot in life is some blend of chance and self determination.

[robocat]

Your fallacy is in your statement “choosing optimism over pessimism”.

Have you ever tried to help somebody “choose” optimism? Have you ever struggled yourself to choose to have some trait you desire in yourself?

Have you ever had an intimate friend struggle with low self-esteem, and did you manage to help them? If you succeeded, do you think that the majority of us have that ability to help others?

I watch my friend teaching/helping the unwell, and I understand just how difficult it is to change what appear to be the most simple and obvious patterns of damaging behaviour. We all have our own flaws that we struggle with.

[KittenInABox]

I think you're using phrases like "sometimes" and "mostly" and "some blend of" to advocate for a position that fundamentally promotes toxic positivity.

I agree with certain aspects of what you say, such as that it's inappropriate to justify disgusting behavior (which I assume you mean assaulting/harming others) and attribute it purely to circumstance as a way of avoiding consequences. I however vehemently disagree with the notion that a healthy mind is a mind that ignores basic facts of reality, such as how much influence randomness and luck have on our quality of life.

There are going to be circumstances in which people's lives objectively suck in a way that isn't their fault and they can still be optimistic about it in a way that acknowledges basic facts of one's living circumstances. There are going to be circumstances in which people's lives are objectively awesome in a way that they didn't do very much work to achieve and acknowledging that has nothing to do with whether or not they're an optimist.