[tda]

These high energy prices mostly hit wasteful industries like greenhouse tomato growers. That is because they gave always relied on cheap, subsidized natural gas. Consumers pay approximately 75% energy tax already so even a 100% rise before taxes results in only a 25% percent rise after.

I live in a 100 year old, poorly insulated house with my family of 4, and we manage to use half of the average for a family house here. And we are not really trying, only thing we do is limit what parts of the house we heat (not the bedrooms) and set the temperature smartly.

I cycle 30km to my work on an electric bike to exercise and limit car usage.

So yes, I really don't think the price rise will have too much impact on consumers directly. I think most people in the Netherlands can halve their energy consumption here with very limited impact on QoL just by heating less and using their car less. And if the price really gets problematic our gov could just lower the taxation

[bojangleslover]

Yeah why can't the "heating vs eating" people just take 2hrs to bike 30km to work every day like we do?

On the flip side I respect your dedication to bike that much thru Dutch winter!

[tda]

I don't think there are more than a handful of "heating vs eating" people in the Netherlands. On the contrary; poverty is positively correlated with obesity.

We do have lots of baby boomers in big houses that they heatup just for themselves. My mom has 4 times my heating bill by herself than I have with a family of four. It would solve a lot of problems if the elderly move to smaller houses and leave the bigger houses for families that need them.

[Scoundreller]

> It would solve a lot of problems if the elderly move to smaller houses and leave the bigger houses for families that need them.

A lot of places make that kind of swap uneconomical. From paying capital gains now instead of later, to loss of property tax increase exemptions to loss of property tax deferrals. Some places exempt gains on housing gains but not other gains (kinda a problem if you downsize and take a windfall)…

Many places ignore housing wealth when it comes to social assistance, but include everything else.

[tda]

yes, exactly. So that is why it is time to change the incentives / tax structure because there is a real housing crisis gling on for young families. Nearly everyone I know with a nice big house is over 65. And half of them are alone. On a personal level I understand amd sympathise with their choice not to downgrade to a smaller house. On a systemic level this is pretty ridiculous. Land value and property taxes should be raised significantly, whilst income taxws should be lowered. I still need to so more reading on Henry George, but I think this was a key part of Georgism

[WarOnPrivacy]

> I cycle 30km to my work on an electric bike to exercise and limit car usage.

In most of the US that's a good way to land in the ER.

source: son t-boned on his e-bike 6 months ago

[whearyou]

Sounds like you guys are ok with the cold. When I lived in cold climates I tried what you’re describing to limit spending. Living in cold indoors wrecked my mood even more than winter generally did so I gave up on it and accepted having to spend more on heat and save elsewhere. I guess what I’m saying is that your approach probably wouldn’t work for everyone. Fortunately I live somewhere warmer now.

[i_am_proteus]

You might find this interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#Sources_of_hydro...

[yxhuvud]

> I live in a 100 year old, poorly insulated house

Have you investigated if it is feasible to retrofit proper isolation? It has been fairly common here in Sweden, though I'd expect that by now most of the housing stock has good isolation. Stuff like triple layers of glass in the windows also helps a lot.

[tda]

Technically feasible sure, but I thibk I used 1100m3 gas last year (would have to look it up teo be sure). So to invest 30000 euro to save 50% of that makes no economical sense. Only when the windows need replacement anyway I'll upgrade to the latest and greatest. But for now I'm conetemplating investing in a moderate air/air heatpump (about 5000 euro, 5kw or something). I think that will also reduce my gas consumption considerably for all but the coldest days. Because labour is so expensive and replacing all windows is so wastefull (they are all oldish double layered windows) better insulation is not so appealing.

I must say though that a properly insulated house can have a better climate in winter as you can keep the humidity much higher.

[bserge]

How long does it take you? I do 14km in ~40 minutes on a normal bike, was thinking an ebike would be way better.

I was hoping to make my own, but maybe I'll cave in and just use a Swapfiets electric...

[tda]

Used to take 45-55mins on a speed pedelec (45km/h) but I sold it and bought a regular ebike set at the US speed limit of 32 km/h. Depending on wind it takes me 60 to 70 minutes for 28.7 km.

[xxpor]

I do ~15 km in ~31 minutes on an ebike. About ~1/3rd of the time is spent sitting at stoplights, as measured by Strava (18 minutes moving time, 31 minutes total time).

[frenchy]

14 km/40 minutes is 21 km/h. Assuming you don't live in hilly terrain, if you use an e-bike with a 25 km/h limiter, you can probably go a little faster, but it won't make huge difference.

It will probably will mean that you get less tired and exercise less, which may be good or bad depending on your opinion.

[dude4you]

"wasteful industries"

ROTFL. Like fertilizer production?