[_ph_]

Still, this is just out of range for most non-professionals. Several times I have considered to buy a LispWorks license for personal usage, but couldn't quite justify the costs.

I am pretty sure they might even sell more professional licenses if they had a wider userbase of enthusiast users.

[caslon]

For anyone curious, a hobbyist license for LispWorks is $500 for a 32-bit version that works on a single operating system, then $250 every year after that. If you actually want to release software other people can use, then it's $1000 and $500 every year after that. If you want to sell software other people can use, double that. Want the ability to use a database? Double it again! Oh, and if you want to release anything but 32-bit software? Double that, too.

All of this is per-seat, too.

It's really "Our company and or university gives us enough money to blow on software that we don't have to look at the prices"-oriented pricing.

LispWorks is amazing software from a development standpoint (though SBCL is significantly faster if you're actually using what you write), but it's also one of the best examples of predatory proprietary software.

[coliveira]

> one of the best examples of predatory proprietary software.

Your conclusion is completely wrong. From what I see, LispWorks is making just barely the minimum to make their operation work. I wouldn't classify this as predatory. They're just trying to make enough money to survive on an environment where very few people are willing to pay for software. From what I see, most people using Lisp are hobbyists, and they already use open source products. To survive, LispWorks had to search for companies that wanted/need to pay for a supported version of Lisp.

Now, Microsoft using proprietary software to lock customers, that is predatory.

[_ph_]

I don't think the license prices for professionals are too high, but I think there should be affordable license options for non-commercial uses. This could not only generate additional direct revenue but also might increase the number of professional users from enthusiasts who turn professional.

[coliveira]

That could be right, but I imagine they already tried that and it didn't work.

[_ph_]

I am pretty sure they don't. I was interested in LispWorks since the late 90ies. I downloaded and used a bit the free edition, but that was too limited even for hobby usage. The personal edition was a bit cheaper then, I almost bought it. I would assume, if they had offered something in between, I would have noticed.

[lispm]

LispWorks exists since 1987. Originally developed by Harlequin, a software tools and software applications (Postscript, Lisp, ML, Dylan, ...) company. After Harlequin closed its doors, Globalgraphics bought the remaining assets and employed some staff. They spawned a company. This spawned the current LispWorks company which is a relatively small company dedicated to only the Lisp product.

Initially LispWorks *only* addressed the professional and academic market (for UNIX systems) with the professional edition, enterprise edition, site licenses and special implementations (like the one on NASA's Deep Space One). Over time it got ported to Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS.

A bunch of years ago they have introduced two versions of 'Hobbyist' editions: with delivery and without. This is still expensive, but in reach for dedicated hobbyists (my hobby camera costs like five times of a Hobbyist license).

Meanwhile, mostly only LispWorks and Franz Inc survived in the commercial market for Common Lisp, while all cheaper Lisp offerings (from companies like Expertelligence, Procycon, Corman, Gold Hill, Apple, ... etc.) haven't survived as a commercial and maintained product.

Competitors in similar or more expensive price ranges also went away (Lucid, Symbolics, TI, Xerox, LMI, Ibuki, ...).

Franz and LispWorks must have done something right -> they are still there and publish new releases, while all the other companies (in various price ranges and various target markets) had to give up.

[mark_l_watson]

I have a fairly large CAPI (UI) example in my Common Lisp book and it runs OK on the free LispWorks edition. The free edition of LispWorks is memory and session time limited, but these limits allow many use cases. The message list for LispWorks contains comments that make me believe that many people use the free edition.

[coliveira]

They have a license for hobby users that costs $500 (and $750 for 64 bits). It is not cheap, but it is within reach for people who really want it.

[lispm]

> "predatory proprietary software"

In reality it is a company with a handful of employees in a very small niche market.