[cblconfederate]

like i 've said before, if it becomes a dillema, i prefer to be tracked by china than the US, because china has no leverage on my daily life, can't affect my finances, and i have no strong desire to live there

(i m not in the US , which matters a lot)

[atlasunshrugged]

Really? But at least with the U.S. there is due process and some accountability. Who knows what China will own in the future and how much power they'll have. What if they buy your favorite airline and now don't want to let you use it because they have your data? What if they build up the 5G infrastructure across the world? I mean, today they might not have that much global reach (although I think just earlier this week they went after some random person who tweeted something negative about the CCP while living abroad) but what about in 20 or 30 years?

[crateless]

>> But at least with the U.S. there is due process and some accountability

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+drone+strikes+2021

[atlasunshrugged]

Yeah, I don't really want to argue this side because I think the drone strikes are reprehensible but in the U.S. there will likely be at a minimum internal investigations, quite possibly congressional hearings, etc. I doubt the same could be said if China did something similar.

[crateless]

It's not even a debate. Where are the triumvirate of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld after falsely starting a war and destabilising an entire region? It doesn't matter what the country stands for, it's what it does that counts.

Due process only applies to American citizens depending on how wealthy you are. The rest of us are sh* out of luck. Which was GP's point.

[blacktriangle]

Biden murders a bunch of civilians then has the media cover it up to try and look tough after his Afganistan withdraw clusterfuck gets thirteen American soliders killed and you feel the need to go back over a decade to look for an example of evil US government.

Democrats live in a perpetual state of denial.

[iszomer]

Agreed but `crateless` diverted the issue.

The experience of using Google to search in China is vastly different than the rest of the world, unless you rely on a VPN service. IIRC, VPN usage is illegal and is reserved for the more state-sponsored "privileged users".

[sofixa]

> Really? But at least with the U.S. there is due process and some accountability

For non-citizens ? Since when and what is it?

[atlasunshrugged]

The most extreme example I can think of is extending the right of habeas corpus to challenge illegal detentions even of non-citizens on foreign territory (RE Bush/Guantanomo).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/01/30/does-th...

[sofixa]

"Foreign territory" to an extent and within very specific cases ( a US ran illegal detention center and US customs).

As a non-US citizen living in France, i have no rights under the US constitution because it has no jurisdiction over me. That doesn't stop the NSA though.

[atlasunshrugged]

I wrote above to a similar example of extra-territorial government activities the US does but at least there can be domestic repercussions to such things (e.g. investigations, congressional hearings, etc.). I sincerely doubt such things happen in China. But as far as things like spying and the NSA in foreign countries... I think you're out of luck as is the rest of the world. Everyone is spying on everyone. I mean the Germans have been lambasting the US for doing so and then it broke recently they also bought from NSO Group! I would be shocked if the French weren't doing the exact same.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-secretly-bought-nso-pega...

[kube-system]

That data can be sold to anyone else around the world, or used to remotely mess with your life. You don’t have to physically be in the country where your data is compromised to experience bad effects. Data brokers don’t care where their customers are physically located as long as they have the cash.

[tomComb]

This issue of our data being bought and sold is a big issue, but nation states and some of the big tech companies don't do it. They simply have other objectives.

It's the huge number of smaller companies (and your ISP probably) who we pay little attention to that are buying and selling your data, to the best of my knowledge.

I don't think we should be giving these smaller companies a pass, and I don't think we should accuse those aren't (currently) doing it of doing it - that makes it lose its' meaning.

[kube-system]

Many governments most certainly do buy data and (not many but some) sell it too. Big tech buys a lot of data, but they primarily exploit it for their own profits rather than sell it, unless it's their primary business.

The mention of "China" above was in regards to data collected by a tech company in China anyway: Xiaomi.

[tomComb]

You are right: I should have said sold, not 'bought and sold'. Thanks.

[inetknght]

> china has no leverage on my daily life

No leverage other than, you know, letting you have tons of products that it can update on a whim and monitor what you do, where you go, etc. The funds you gave them end up in Chinese taxes, or more, and that ends up as an absolute nightmare against your own country's best interests. How can you even try saying that's not leverage?

[Ekaros]

Don't seem too different from the other side. And which one should I prefer the one which just ended 20 year occupation in abysmal way. Or one that is currently and in close future focusing on areas near itself...