[hughrr]

People don’t know when something is done, finished and complete. They have to go and fuck around with it.

Look at windows for example. Image how good that would be if they didn’t keep trying to fuck around with it and actually finished something.

[bonoboTP]

How do you get promoted and what will you put on your CV if you don't change stuff and just keep the lights on? This is a dilemma all the way from top management to developers. How does a project manager build a career if there are no projects?

Change is needed because people want to have jobs and they will make work for themselves if none exists.

[Ieghaehia9]

>Change is needed because people want to have jobs and they will make work for themselves if none exists.

Traditional jobs must have solved this problem somehow. You don't usually see e.g. windowmakers or installers coming up with windows in the shapes of superellipses because square windows are already solved, or stoves coming with integrated fridges because "just an oven and a top" is already solved.

[adolph]

Yes, it is called “fashion.” People periodically replace clothing or reconstruct buildings or alter cooking or food presentation. It doesn’t change much but it does maintain a great deal of economic activity, keeps the motors running as it were. By and large operating systems and websites and mature software systems are similar. It is a good thing because it soaks up the attention of people who would delay efforts to evolve, example Microsoft contemplating its OS navel as Netscape came about. It is also good because a small amount of the large economic value of fashion is still more than sufficient for the development of something new. As the “startup” has become fashionable the cycle repeats where the relatively inanimate bones of effort that doesn’t create new value is used as a framework for the rare things that do.

[rualca]

> You don't usually see e.g. windowmakers or installers coming up with windows in the shapes of superellipses because square windows are already solved, or stoves coming with integrated fridges because "just an oven and a top" is already solved.

Well, actually you do. You'd be surprised. Let's ignore for now that there are different window makes and models. There has been a transition from custom-made windows to ready-made windows, whose production cost is higher but the total cost ends up being low because you can have a crew drop by in a construction site and get it done in a few minutes.

Then there's the current progresses in energy efficiency, and also fancy gizmos like actuators and sensors and all kinds of domotics.

Then there's security systems embedded into windows, which further adds sensors and networking and actuators.

You're now far beyond your mom and pop's windows.

And progress ain't done yet. We're starting to see self-dimming windows and also self-cleaning windows.

[bonoboTP]

Most of the window making jobs are just production. In software you don't have the same friction of production. You don't have to type in the source code each time you install the program. But you have to manufacture a new window and physically install it each time which is labor intensive. Also, the window designer job is not hyped as much as IT jobs are.

Furthermore, you do see household appliances getting fitted with useless feature bloat and shoddy software and wireless and touchscreens on microwaves etc. It happens. IoT, subscription based software updates for power drills etc... Tractors that can't be repaired and contain a jumble of proprietary software as a service etc.

[raducu]

A couple of years ago I worked for a bank replacing an in-house library that basically moved and transformed data from one database to another with a highly contrieved Spring Batch solution.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the "ugly" framework code, it was quite beautiful, well structured, configurable and fast. Somebody didn't like that you didn't write java code and the properties file based DSL was indeed odd, but nothing wrong with it after you bothered to read the library code.

The Spring Batch code was more explicit, but much uglier, overall.

[bonoboTP]

People have to have list items for their yearly review cycle and their CV. "Replaced a legacy system with a more modern solution" can be presented in a light that earns you cookies. But it may be seen as useless by the higher ups if all they care about is new features. You have to know what impresses your boss and your boss' boss or the interviewer at your next job.

[rualca]

> There was absolutely nothing wrong with the "ugly" framework code, it was quite beautiful, well structured, configurable and fast.

I'm sure there is far more to the story than the new guys doing a poor job writig a replacement service.

For example, old code does add maintenance costs just by the fact that it's either tied to old frameworks or even OSes, either of which might not be maintained anymore. Also, I don't feel it's a honest argument to criticize java for the sake of being java. If there was ever a production-minded programming language and tech stack, that would undoubtedly be java.

I'm sure the guys who designed the replacement service would have a few choice words regarding the old service.

[indigochill]

> How do you get promoted and what will you put on your CV if you don't change stuff and just keep the lights on?

Find a new need. Every good product (and many bad products) is an answer to some need. And the world's full of all kinds of needs that we can work on.

However, sometimes we start projects without proving they actually answer a need, or sometimes the internal corporate needs don't match the user's needs (I'm looking at you, integrated advertising in Windows 11).

[bonoboTP]

Finding a new need is risky and difficult. Tweaking and rewriting parts of an existing product with proven market adoption to fit the new fads delivers more predictable flashy results and successes for your CV and career and visibility within the organization.

[bluGill]

You have to constantly reinvent yourself, or someone else will and take all your customers.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but you aren't right. There is a balance. You can't stand still, but quality that comes from improving the current thing is important as well.