[dvh]

When you switch to Linux (desktop), you should seek something that Windows cannot offer.

I'm my case, it was possibility of having desktop where change for the sake of change is completely absent. My desktop is fully up to date, yet it hasn't changed visually since 2006. Every control and menu item is where it was 15 years ago, colors are the same, fonts are the same. I'm not using OS, I'm using apps. The best thing good OS can do for me, is not to get in my way when I run apps. I'm using jwm set up to resemble early gnome.

[_Understated_]

> The best thing good OS can do for me, is not to get in my way when I run apps

This has always been my complaint about Windows.

I've long considered the OS as a tool to launch my apps ONLY!. That's it!

Of course, under the surface there are a few more things that it needs to perform like not corrupting my data, being secure and protecting me from attacks and so on but it's purpose is a toolbox.

Carpenters don't use their toolbox to build furniture. They use the tools in it. That's what the the OS is to me: a toolbox that holds my tools.

When it starts giving me shit for not using a Microsoft account or trying to "help me with that thing" that pisses me off.

However, the worst thing is when shit moves around, menus change etc.

Perhaps it's time to give Linux a go again!

[scns]

Good idea, give it a try. I'd recommend Kubuntu or Mint with Cinnamon. I switched to KDE for KDE Connects' amazing smartphone (Android) integration, which i recommend srrongly to try. Switched to openSUSE Tumbleweed myself, best KDE implemention IMHO, rolling release and the software selection is great, whats missing from the repos can be installed via opi, a client for [0]. It is not that newbie friendly though, since SUSEs' focus is on the enterprise ie safety over ease of use.

[0] https://openbuildservice.org/

[_Understated_]

As it happens, I have a USB stick with Fedora 34 on it. I tried it a few months back after Ubuntu and POP OS and found it to be great with one issue: Nvidia graphics! Too much fannying about to get them to work.

If i just used the built-in Intel graphics it was perfect. Every app worked (I'm a .NET dev), everything was fast and stable... it was great.

The issue with the graphics was to do with having an HDMI and DP connection at the same time and caused a crash in 46x version of drivers. 47x wasn't out at the time but it is now... perhaps it's time!

[scns]

No problems whatsoever with Ubuntu based distros (like Mint) with Nvidia whatsoever. If you want to install the newest Mesa from a PPA, one of them has instructions for Mint. I'd recommend openSUSE over Fedora, less Gnome focused, more pragmatic than laboratory to push the boundaries and rolling release in case of Tumbleweed. Instructions for Nvidia drivers are here [0]. Just saw a guide to Setting up MicroOS as a desktop OS (their equivalent to Fedora Silverblue, immutable OS). Might try that one on the machine i still have to migrate from a Cinnamon/KDE-FrankenMint to Tumbleweed.

[0] https://opensuse.github.io/openSUSE-docs-revamped-temp/insta...

[bmn__]

> opi

Phones home to domain `guoyunhe.me`. Not cool! I only noticed because the host is down.

Plain zypper already works for installing from OBS. Click "expert download" link on a package search result page, or click "download package" on an OBS project page. Example: <https://software.opensuse.org/download?project=openSUSE%3AFa...>

[BruiseLee]

Indeed it does: https://github.com/openSUSE/opi/blob/5fc82de009fb3e792550607...

I'm not sure what this proxy is for though.

[scns]

Since it is not reachable, it is good for crashing opi. Hm.

[scns]

Thanks you very much, good to know.

[ekianjo]

there is gsconnect on Gnome as well.

[INTPenis]

The tiny changes in the DE are minimal compared to the massive changes under the hood. I can learn a new Gnome DE layout in a few days. But in the same period as Gnome has evolved we have gotten systemd, pulse, pipewire, new file systems and a lot more. The list is literally too long to list here. And each of those changes bring with them a new UI/UX.

So keeping the desktop static is not as important as keeping the desktop stable, imho. Which is why I just use vanilla Gnome. (with some dconf edits to improve speed and stability)

[raffraffraff]

Same reasons, except that's why I use XFCE.

[vbezhenar]

For me, Linux have two killer features:

1. Native docker support which runs on the same kernel, shares the same RAM. It's better than Docker in VM.

2. Sane virtualization story. Windows has Hyper-V, VirtualBox has its own stuff, they conflict, if they don't conflict, VirtualBox runs slow as molasses, Android installs some intel hax to work in Windows. WSL provides its own virtual machine, docker provides its own virtual machine. It's a mess! With Linux it's pretty simple: everyone just uses KVM which just works. I run my Windows VM with simple bash script. Perfect!

Also I can't really claim it, but I still think that Linux works better under heavy load with slow CPU. I have very slow mobile 2-core Intel i3. I can run docker containers, Windows VM, IntelliJ Idea, Android Studio, Android Emulator, Factorio. All at once! I just need enough RAM, that is. Of course I can get occasional lag if something taxes my little CPU. But it's very usable. Unless I run Chrome. Chrome is bad.

With Windows, I can run less applications at once. I guess that with powerful CPU that's not really an issue, so I kind of handicapped myself with slow CPU, but whatever.

[ziml77]

Hyper-V is interesting because it actually causes Windows itself to run on top of the hypervisor. I'm surprised that VirtualBox works at all in that environment.

I think the idea is that Hyper-V was supposed to be what everything uses on Windows, but clearly they didn't make it enticing enough for any virtualization software to switch over. Besides the crappy Hyper-V manager, the only other thing I know of that uses it is WSL2. Too bad Microsoft doesn't care enough to improve the situation.

[dijit]

This _can_ be true, but GNOME (for example) have drastically changed their UI paradigm in that time window.

It's quite nice as a power user, I use terminals and.. overall terminals and tiling window managers barely change.

But the pace of change can be jarring, and sometimes controversial:

GNOME2->3

init->systemd

alsa->pulse->pipewire

ifconfig->ip

NetworkManager->iwctl

A lot of the ergonomics _do_ change with Linux if you're not paying attention.

And this isn't to mention the default desktop manager changing between major versions of popular distros like ubuntu.

[NullPrefix]

>GNOME2->3

I assume MATE is still supported. Yes, it requires user action to change the DE, but end result may be worth it.

>init->systemd

OpenRC supported on Gentoo.

>alsa->pulse->pipewire

Pulseaudio is optional. Pipewire might be worthwhile to hear out.

>ifconfig->ip

ifconfig still works for me.

>NetworkManager->iwctl

No idea, never used any of those.

[asddubs]

to be fair, there's also MATE to get the old gnome experience untainted, so even for gnome users this is possible. I personally prefer cinnamon, set up with the classic windows XP taskbar, plus maybe one at the top too

[coolspot]

iwctl is only for wireless networks, no?

In my understanding, the systemd-networkd is more like a successor of NetworkManager.

[usr1106]

Yes, iwd/iwctl is the (wannabe) successor of wpa_supplicant. But systemd-networkd cannot really do WLAN. It can replace NetworkManager in a data center and an office machine. But not conveniently on a laptop. I guess the same might be true for VPN (the rare cases I need one I do it ad-hoc from command line, so no real experience in that area).

[pjmlp]

Well, my Windows applications from 2000 can still run on Windows 10, without being recompiled, regardless of the UI changes.

[nix23]

Some, not all.

And Wine/Proton is (i would say) more compatible with old Windows-Apps then Windows itself, not even talking about dosbox/dosbox-x.

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

Ironically what this means is that Linux Desktop has better compatibility with Windows binaries than it does with its own binaries from the near past. The Windows APIs are stable enough to make that possible.

[pjmlp]

So what is the value of Linux when it needs to play OS/2 Windows compatibility flag?

It did plenty of good to OS/2 native applications.

And some is still more than I could say for something compiled in Red Hat Linux (!Enterprise) or Mandrake, to put it in perspective regarding 2000.

[nix23]

> So what is the value of Linux when it needs to play OS/2 Windows compatibility flag?

What's the value of Windows if it has worse compatibility to is former incarnations?

>And some is still more than I could say for something compiled in Red Hat Linux (!Enterprise) or Mandrake, to put it in perspective regarding 2000

It could be always worse and better, let's talk about z/OS

[pjmlp]

Except it doesn't, not to the extent of how bad Linux does it.

I really would like to see IBM marketing materials about the Year of z/OS Desktop.

[nix23]

You twist thing as you go, for backward compatibility no one can match z/OS. As for the desktop...let's wait for linux or bsd to do that (or not)....or iOS/Android (worst outcome of them all).