[1vuio0pswjnm7]

Privacy and security regulation, nor antitrust regulation, are viable means to stop tech companies from creating problems. The way to stop them is to regulate online advertising. Tech companies have no other way to make money. Ignoring this is like trying to fight a war without ever trying to interfere with the enemy's supply chains.

The constant focus on the majority of web users, i.e., "the average user", is misplaced and suffers from an incorrect assumption. Namely, that a majority of the public needs to support some law before it can be passed by a legislature.

Most legislation does not come from mass outpouring of support by the public, like the kind "HN/Reddit/other tech/Geek forum" comments call for. It comes from lobbying, usually professional, and sometimes community activism. The same "niche" groups that people in the these forums like to downplay are not necessarily much smaller and may even be larger than groups who have successfully gotten laws passed at state and federal levels. What is necessary is some number of people who do understand the issues to initiate the lobbying and campaigning; the awareness and support of the "average constituent" is never a prerequisite. Nor is it true that every law passed serves an enormous number of constituents, i.e., "the average constituent". Sometimes laws only serve small groups of people who have special needs (or wants).

The notion of the "average user" really has no bearing on whether legislation is passed or not. What matters is the small group of people who are driving the campaign to have legislation passed. That group is unlikely to comprise the "average user", its going to be people who understand the issues to which the proposed law is targeted and can articulate them to people who know how to work the system to get laws passed.

The more middlemen people accept when using the internet, the more parties that can be subpoenaed. Those are the consequences of "cloud computing" and "SaaS". But to think that no law can be passed to address the harms that "tech" companies present, because the "average user" does not understand these problems, makes no sense. Stop focusing on "the average user". Thats for the "tech" companies to do. For the non-average users, its a waste of time.

[cybersol]

When both the government and the advertising companies have an aligned incentive to spy on us all, Why would the government pass either privacy or advertising laws?

[hilbert42]

That's the problem with democracy at the moment, vested interests have taken control of the forum because (a) they're able to and (b) the majority of citizens are just not interested in or engaged with the issues.

You see this everywhere not only with security etc. but also in many other areas. A classic case is copyright law where a small number of powerful people have hijacked the debate and managed to impement grosely unfair laws in their favor. They're so organized and powerful that they've not only been successful domestically but also internationally with treaties etc. It's almost impossible to break these nexes when the populace at large is so complacent.

In short, our current democratic structures favor the powerful, money-rich and organized at the expense of the disinterested who are disinterested because they're not yet aware of the issues involved and thus don't yet know that they stand to lose or be disadvantaged. There is no effective advocacy system to support them and conterbbalance the push at the early stages of law formation and thus we end up with laws that overcompensate the initial lobby and which are extremely hard to unwind later, especially so when international treaties are involved.

Outside a revolution I cannot see change happening and revolutions are the very last thing we need, they end up disastrously for everyone.

It's all rather depressing really.

[throwaway210222]

> That's the problem with democracy at the moment

I disagree. The problem with (multi-party) based democracy is that it is way more important to be popular with the party seniority, than with the constituents.

If fact, if you want to be a member of a parliament, its essential to first be popular with the party, before you get a shot at being popular with your voters.

[hilbert42]

Not disagreeing, I should have said 'one of the problems'.

Nevertheless, same goes here, there's insufficient interest from the citizenry to break that nexus too. Breaking party loyalty etc. to obtain a fairer system has been the bane of modern democracy for hundreds of years - back to Hobbes, Locke etc. As I said it's depressing that there's no easy solution.

Edit: Same goes for any lobby who wields effective power over the elected, remember Edmund Burke got the shift from the electors of Bristol when he dared move off their agenda to put broader (national) interest first. Whilst this broader approach seems fairer/better for all it's nevertheless a double-edge sword though, as it allows politicalians an excuse to pursue another agenda - one that may not be in either the electors' or national interest but rather that of a third party or even him or herself. The problem remains, we've no effective way of fixing it/balancing all interests fairly.

[ClumsyPilot]

"Tech companies have no other way to make money"

Microsoft is pretty major, and makes money not from ads