[denverkarma]

I'm sorry I can't speak to details as this is all very personal for the folks involved, but I know all the people involved in this story and can tell you this is not a very fair account of what happened. It was a long-running and very difficult situation for everyone involved.

[civilized]

In other posts you seem quite willing to disclose very specific details of the situation, like what leave the person in question did and didn't take. But you're not telling us the details that supposedly constitute Atlassian's side of the story. Isn't that interesting?

Maybe Atlassian's side of the story doesn't actually look so good for Atlassian.

[denverkarma]

The details I’ve commented on are the ones present in the authors writing. Atlassian is not perfect, but the story as told is far from complete. But beyond that, I don’t have anything to gain from elaborating, and the author is already angry and going through a lot, so why pile on?

[hmottestad]

The unlimited PTO thing? Is it true that Atlassian calls it unlimited but there is no way to even get a European standard 5 weeks a year?

[denverkarma]

My experience was that Atlassian was very generous with PTO, but it's true there was no accrual. I was encouraged to take 20-30 days off per year, and I did, and I never got pushback. My experience was that nearly everyone took 4-5 weeks off per year, and those that did not were often encouraged to take more PTO.

There was an entitlement for 6 weeks paternity leave and 6 months maternity leave, which is very good for the US.

But there is no accrual. I know that some people there had a really hard time with the idea of "unlimited" and felt that they could't use their time off if they didn't know how much they "really" had. The truth was you really had as much as your manager said, but this sucked for managers because occasionally someone would abuse it and try to just work 3 days a week, so they tried to give guidance. The standard guidance was "we want you to take at least 20 days off, and you should be fine up to 30, if it's more than that we might start saying no."

The person who wrote this post did not, and still does not, understand that this guidance is not the same as accrued vacation.

[chrisco255]

No it's not true at all. I recently left Atlassian after working there 4 years. 3-5 weeks felt like the average PTO my coworkers would take. It was an easy-going system.

I don't know if OP had a particularly bad manager as that happens in any large company, but no one I worked with ever brought up any issues.

[hmottestad]

Anyone take more than 5 weeks? Like say taking the entire summer off to match what their kids get from school (10-11 weeks)?

[nominally_human]

Currently an employee at Atlassian in the US.

Atlassian does not have an “unlimited vacation” policy per se, but it has a “flexible, non-accrual, discretionary vacation policy” called “vacay your way.” Like unlimited it does not set an annual limit, but there are policies around how it is used, key being (a) it should be coordinated with manager (and your team) (b) no more than 30 consecutive days. Otherwise people are encouraged and do take random days off, go on planned one, two, three or four week vacations.

Prior to working here, all the places I had worked allowed me to accrue vacation, which I rarely used and cashed out when I left the company. For me, at the time, I thought it was fine. But when I joined Atlassian, i was looking for better work life balance, and I found it versus prior employers. I was very well aware that I need to use may vacation, because there is no cash equivalent. In fact, I tell all my coworkers to take vacation frequently even if you just stay home and play games all day… often times they are reluctant (American work habits are quite unhealthy). So in the years since joining, I have taken far more vacations per year without any impediment or scrutiny. My managers (had quite a few over the years) never questioned it and it took a while for me (personally) to get used to just taking breaks and going on vacations or just staying home… again, bad American habit of overworking and thinking I need to carry more than my load at work.

At Atlassian, my understanding is any employee can take off two consecutive weeks, and will talk to the manager if they want to take off more. Many employees take sporadic days off throughout the year for whatever reason, for kids, health, needing to just get away. I personally never had a problem in asking for or receiving vacation. The problem I usually see is people choosing to not take time off, and that leads to burnout.

As noted, Americans often do not take much vacation, and this is why there is a lot of discussion about accrual and cashing out. I think the program allows people to just take time off anytime for big or small reasons and not worry about counting the time off. It is very much about the freedom from worrying about if you have time to take, and the flexibility in taking it when you need it.

In the past 12 months, I have taken over 30 days off (probably closer to 40) without anyone batting an eyelash. Those days off were both planned vacations and random days off due to being sick, tired or some other person reason. I never needed to ask for the time off.

It looks quite generous by American standards (maybe on par with european), and I would say I was never able to take this much time off at other employers, unless I did not use it one year and had it roll over to the next.

In addition to vacation time, Atlassian does provide other generous leave:

During COVID we also have a nice benefit for all employees globally to take up to a month off due to stress of the pandemic, no approvals needed.

I have seen friends and coworkers use the generous parental/maternity leave which is very generous for Americans. I don’t know all the details, not having a kid born while working here, but it is something like maternal (child bearer) is 26 weeks, parental (spouse) is 20 weeks, both at 100% base pay.

We also have have paid leave to care for a family member for 7 weeks at 100% base pay. Something I also have not needed (thankfully) but know others have needed.

So I honestly do not understand all the scrutiny over Atlassian vacation and leave policies. It is not quite “unlimited vacation”, it is “vacay your way” and it is pretty fair and flexible.

I get the OP had their own unique circumstances, but it does not reflect my own experience (obviously) and of those I work or socialize with at Atlassian. I sympathize for them and wish them and their spouse the best.

[nominally_human]

Highlights on leave are found here, which AFAIK never mentions “unlimited leave”

- https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers/resources/perk-and...

[wisty]

I immediately get skeptical when I hear "because" being used for something that is not clearly a proximate cause.