[mschuster91]

> This has been a deliberate destruction of a once great nation since the moment Kissinger sold the US out to Chairman Mao.

Nope. What has been going on over the last decades is simply the consequence of unregulated capitalism - by design, capitalism seeks to eliminate or reduce cost to increase profit, and China (as well as India and Vietnam) were/are the most cost-efficient locations to produce goods and provide services.

[lotsofpulp]

The need for people to have a villain in their stories always disturbed me. I guess it gives people a semblance of control if they “know” something, rather than acknowledging the innumerable causal factors intertwining with each other to create an unknowable future and unattributable past.

I am sure Kissinger played a part in many things, but he seems small pickles compared to labor costs (and hence quality of life) in the US being multiple standard deviations above the mean compared to the rest of the world.

How long did people expect that arbitrage opportunity to not be taken advantage of?

[disgruntledphd2]

The only reason that this could be taken advantage of in any real sense, was the removal of capital controls, which was very much a political choice.

Also, adding China to the WTO was probably a bad thing for the lower half of the income distribution in the developed world.

[lotsofpulp]

Unless your nation is self sufficient, there are always costs to capital controls. The choice is not let everyone live happily ever after and restrict trade. Tradeoffs are made to remain competitive on a global playing field.

If China and other countries are bringing 1B+ people online to make products at a fifth of your wages, then it is only a matter of time before the buyers outside the country start buying from them.

[disgruntledphd2]

Sure, but that's not what happened.

What happened was that American (and European) corporations started producing their goods in other countries, because it was cheaper for them.

Like, I would have no issue with this in general if China developed their own companies, rather than already profitable US companies slashing their labour costs massively by using cheaper labour. It's super problematic, and while one can argue it's been good for the world, it's been pretty crap for all the manual/manufacturing workers in the US, Uk and other developed countries.

Full disclosure: I'm from Ireland, and this sort of outsourcing was what employed my Dad (and now me).

[imtringued]

When it comes to globalization the problem lies in imbalanced trade. If there is no imbalanced trade whatsoever, then globalization cannot cause problems.

Trade surplus nations work more than they should. Trade deficit nations work less than they should. That has strong implication on where "all the jobs" end up.

My favorite example is Greece. "All the jobs" have moved to Germany.

[germandiago]

It is true. Capitalism by design seeks that. And you too. And each of us. We seek to live in better conditions.

The side-effect of it is that technology that the day back was not reachable for most is now available for everyone: phones, cheap clothes, cheaper food, hot water, electricity, railways...

BTW I have lived in VN almost 10 years. It is true that VN has factories and workers are much cheaper.

Jobs move there. People buy cheaper products (automatically people that did not have access to something have access to it by the cost reduction).

Workers there get 4 times more of what they would get on their own and an insurance they would not have and do not need to work god knows where, probably selling in the street drinks or similar stuff.

I think that with all its imperfections, capitalism is the better alternative.

Btw we have never had unregulated capitalism... if we had, we would have worse salaries probably but more people could earn a life by themselves. Our friends the politicians are always there to tell you that you have to pay and shut up. For the good of all... lol. I do not buy that.