[TaylorAlexander]

Many schemes have been discussed to handle this problem. Giving a workers union board seats as is done in Germany is one possible way. Another, if we are imagining a different society, is to make sure our educational system teaches every student the principles of worker self-management. People would grow up learning how to make decisions collectively. A great example of another world not yet to be realized is the Oakland Community Learning Center run by the Black Panthers, shown in this 1977 television piece [1].

In that school, students learn to work together not just to solve problems, but also to determine justice (under guidance from adult teachers).

In a world with bosses and workers, we are teaching everyone to do as they are told and follow orders. But we could, I believe, see a much better world if we teach everyone to be community leaders and collaborators.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dYsjDqUdr0

[grapist420]

giving workers board seats doesn’t reduce their order following, it makes the orders better.

> Another, if we are imagining a different society, is to make sure our educational system teaches every student the principles of worker self-management

what are those principles? Yeah modern work absolutely crushes the soul, but ... how else do we make the heckin .1% tolerance raw materials in the heckin factories? Where’s the room for improvisation or self driven innovation if you’re a line worker in a butcher shop? Seems hard. Not sure black panther community leadership is gonna help.

[TaylorAlexander]

It is not an issue of following orders, it is an issue of hierarchy. When all the workers are below the board in the hierarchy, the board can take all the profits, push the workers super hard, and squeeze out all their benefits. In that scenario a few people get rich off of the work of many, and you develop a society where a small minority of people hold all the power and rule over everyone else.

The board seats are not about "better orders" (tho that may be another benefit) they are about ensuring the needs of the workers are represented in board decisions. For example if the Amazon warehouse workers had representatives on the board, they'd get bathroom breaks and better pay. The only reason I mention workers making more decisions is if you want to eliminate the board entirely.

> what are those principles?

> Not sure black panther community leadership is gonna help

I know most people do not watch the videos I link (obviously), but it sounds like maybe you did not watch the video. If you want to know what principles I think would help, I really recommend the video! It will be better than me trying to tell you from memory (esp because I am sleepy). It's a great piece of history and it shows some ideas that would help make all students better community leaders and cooperative workers.

[grapist420]

I will eventually read leftist theory, but I won’t be caught dead watching political YouTube

[TaylorAlexander]

It's a television story from 1977. You can learn about this historical thing or not, but based on your comments it seems clear you just want to argue without learning anything.