[somejan]

Java nowadays is mostly used for business applications, where developer productivity is more important than runtime performance. Java being memory safe is a huge part of that, which is the JVM platform. Java the language had the major feature of being superficially similar to C++, that helped take over the business market but is now no longer relevant. When Java was first marketed as a business application language there were few competitors. Nowadays there are, but nowadays the major reason to choose Java is because it is entrenched and good enough.

However all the Java shops I hear about are also looking into Kotlin at some level of adoption. From all the new JVM languages Kotlin integrates the best with the existing Java environment and for displacing a language in an existing niche an easy upgrade path is the most important. So I think Kotlin will become an important language in the JVM ecosystem, it will just take a long time because these types of businesses are conservative in their tech choices.

[kaba0]

> Java nowadays is mostly used for business applications, where developer productivity is more important than runtime performance

I fail to think of any other platform that could run these monstrosity CRUD enterprise apps as fast as the JVM can. Sure, C++ can be written to utilize hardware better, but with all the classes and interfaces around with everything being virtual, a good JIT compiler can skip method lookups over AOT compiled languages.

[fulafel]

> Java nowadays is mostly used for business applications, where developer productivity is more important than runtime performance

While both of these things are true, they not connected in the way you imply, since Java is a pretty low level language by today's standards.

In the Java school of business app engineering, writing the code is rarely a big part of the effort, so it doesn't matter if the langugae is not very good or expressive. Java wins at having a big commodity-like labour pool of programmers, and there's a lot of inertia and stability in the platform.

There are of course a lot of people who use more expressive and creative tools in making business apps, like eg the many companies using Clojure, Scala, Ruby, Python etc for them, so it's not the only way to skin the cat.

[pjmlp]

Kotlin's future is tied to Android.

On the JVM it is like trying to replace C on UNIX.

[code_sloth]

Both of my last 2 large bank gigs (kind of the last places you'd expect cutting edge tech) were going all in on Kotlin. New projects were Kotlin only, and there was active work on sunsetting/migrating Java applications towards Kotlin. None of these were Android applications.

Sure, this is anecdotal. But I'd say the same of Java's dominance in the JVM space. Java's continued dominance is not a sure thing from my vantage point.

[pjmlp]

JVM is written in a mix of Java and C++, let me know when they start rewriting it in Kotlin.

Groovy was all the adoption rage across German JUGs back in 2010, then everyone was going to rewrite the JVM in Scala, or was it Clojure?

Now a couple of places are adopting Kotlin outside Android, nice, eventually will migrate back in about 5 years time.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F07sbkfb,%2...

[code_sloth]

> JVM is written in a mix of Java and C++, let me know when they start rewriting it in Kotlin.

This is less relevant today. The host blessed languages do have an advantage, but I would not say it is insurmountable. It might have been the case in the past, but the modern JVM is a platform, it is no longer a glorified Java language interpreter.

> Now a couple of places are adopting Kotlin outside Android, nice, eventually will migrate back in about 5 years time.

Maybe. Maybe not. Most developers I talked to that have experienced the transition do not want to go back to Java.

This isn't to say Java will die. It will continue to thrive. But Java dominance (on the JVM or as a whole) isn't a sure thing anymore.