[kfk]

I think Uber might be right here. EU labor laws protect a few but over a certain salary they are not very appealing. In Italy paying a net salary of 2,000 euros will cost the company 6000+. Things included like pension are not worth their cost, a private pension is better and cheaper, same for health services. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.

[yawaworht1978]

I have paid the ridiculous charge from Rome's airport to the city, it's interesting how many measures airports like Rome, Madrid, Barcelona have to take to keep Uber out as good as possible. I still agree with the Dutch court. First, EU has a goal to somewhat harmonize some laws and taxes. Europe should not simply allow any company to come along and undermine everything. If Europe let's this happen, the consequence is very simple, in case the drivers don't make ends meet, they will claim it from social services, making me the guy who pays for that. So taxpayers are subsidiaries to uebers shenanigans, no thanks. I support the European tax system and social policies, but I am not gonna pay the SV salaries for some "wise guys", I prefer the taxes invested in infrastructure, health care, the useful things, including pensions.if I would prefer the US model, I would go and live there.

[isbvhodnvemrwvn]

It's probably worth noting that the EU has nothing to do with this. These are policies of individual countries, EU has very little if anything to do with taxes, pensions or health care.

[yawaworht1978]

It's true that the EU has no federal executive body, however, no country can simply go and set corporate taxes to 0 without an uproar. the cross border phone network is unified for example. The were Cyprus and Malta selling passports to the highest bidders without due diligence done,kickbacks and honey traps, you name it, it happened. https://euobserver.com/justice/149810

There is a limit on how much can and can't be done within the EU, it's not a gravy train buffet. There is peer pressure and potential, let's call it cascading effect. Some lawmaker will hear about this and try to get it passed in another country as well. I struggle to think of one state which would simply accept Uber as some great Enterprise idea, look at the history here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_ridesharing_comp... Most places banned and this bit. In December 2017, the European Court of Justice ruled that Uber is a transport company, subject to local transport regulation in European Union member states, rather than an information society service as Uber had argued.[99]

So at best, tolerated for the time being.

In Europe, working without full compensation is typically called illicit work(instead of side gig), not extremely frowned upon, but the main job has to have proper compensation. It very normal and expected to get 4 weeks paid holidays or more, sick days covered, insurance in most places, pension contributions etc. Uber tells you to get a car, petrol, pay insurance and take jobs when available, and get none of the above, who are they kidding.

[crote]

A bit off-topic, but why would you take a taxi for that trip? A train to the city leaves evert 15 minutes and costs you only €14. By car it's a 30km ride!

This is true for basically every single European city. Public transport is of such high quality that taking a taxi simply doesn't make sense.

[yawaworht1978]

Was cold after cross continent flight and just missed the train by a few minutes, was also pretty late, place looked abandoned, had a bit too much luggage and had no idea how to get to my destination. Any other circumstances, I would take the train.

[maccolgan]

Why yes let's just remove the ability of people to take a market-priced car ride... Have you considered the private space that a car affords? (albeit shared with the driver)

[bserge]

> claim it from social services

You say it like they just walk in, ask for money and get it. It's really much harder, practically impossible if you're not on some priority list (with kids, disability, single mother, etc).

[yawaworht1978]

I know, it takes time to claim it, and this actually infuriates me even more, because all the cla procedures are handled by expensive government staff, of course this is due to security checks, to exclude fraudulent claims. All paid for by taxpayers so Uber can burn another buck(they're still never profitable are they, tells me everything about the business model). The good thing is, once it works, it works.

[brnt]

I've never heard anyone here in the EU argue this. Including people over a certain salary. It is, after all, in the interest of the wealthy too that everyone is OK and doesn't need to live in the streets and cause crime, necessitating guns and whatnot as they do in the US.

Paying your tax and premiums is way cheaper and much more pleasant.

[_abox]

Yes this.. We don't want ultracapitalism here. I make more than average but I'm totally fine with paying taxes. The safety net is there for me too. Capitalism is good but there must be a balance.

To an American it may sound communist (though technically it's more socialist) but it's our country, we can choose the system we want. And we've done an OK job IMO (In fact I wish things were a bit more socialist - this abuse of the ZZP concept has been going on for far too long).

[pault]

Decades of cold war propaganda have confused the issue in the US. When you say socialism, they think you are talking about USSR-style authoritarian communism. It's asurd and exasperating, but it won't go away until the boomer generati on loses political influence. It's also highly partisan, and in today's atmosphere of cultural warfare, that makes it a non-starter. Half the country won’t wear a mask because Donald Trump wanted to deny the pandemic during his reelection campaign. What hope is there for something as radical as changing the entire foundation of society?

[Loic]

For the company it costs more money, but for the employee, you are way better being employed than contractor.

This is not a surprise, this extra money is effectively bringing the employee health insurance, pension, invalidity pension, unemployment benefit, maximum number of hours to work per week, paid vacations, etc.

If you need to pay it out of your pocket, it turns out to be the same.

In the "old" Europe, the net salary is basically 50% of the cost for the company, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less depending of marital status, country, etc. But this is a good rule of thumb.

[bserge]

I can see the future: "New EU law: for every multipurpose robot in operation, the company must employ one human" :D

[watt]

From the strikes of train driver's unions in Germany, I think that's where it is headed. "You can automate trains if you like, but the whole current workforce still must stay employed."

[consumer451]

Well, maybe something more along the lines of a contribution towards UBI, or similar. This is a concept I first heard come out of the US, from Musk maybe?

[the_mitsuhiko]

> In Italy paying a net salary of 2,000 euros will cost the company 6000+.

I dispute this number. Do you have a source for this?

[aeyes]

I don't know much about Italy but should be pretty similar to Germany where we generally say the employer pays double. Example person unmarried, no kids, 35.

- net: 2000€

- gross: 3100€

- company cost: 3850€

[killtimeatwork]

In Poland, it's like this, for an country-wide-average salary:

- net: 4300 PLN - gross: 6000 PLN - total employer cost: 7200 PLN

So, the total tax burden is around 40%.

What gets neglected in these discussions though is that everything employer pays is counted as a cost he can write off from revenue to decrease his profit taxes (assuming company makes profit!). So, the effective cost on employer side is lower than 7200 PLN - naive calculation, assuming 15% profit taxes, would make it 0.85 * 7200 PLN = 6100 PLN.

[988747]

Salaries are always considered the cost of doing business, so I'm not sure what your point is here. What is important is that many people can't wrap their head around the fact that this additonal 1200 PLN which is labeled as "employer contribution" to social security is in fact part of their salary. So people do not realize that their tax burden is 40%, they think it is just 29%.

Also, to make it worse, once you get your 4300 PLN salary into your bank account, you pay on average 16% VAT on every purchase (8-23%, depending on the item bought). So in reality your net salary is 4300*0.84 = 3612, making total tax burden almost 50%.

[the_mitsuhiko]

Double is far of from what was mentioned for Italy.

[GekkePrutser]

That may be the case but you can't just decide as an employer that you don't want to honour an employee's rights.

If things don't add up or can be done a cheaper way, talk to the government. Don't stop obeying the law.

[ihalip]

No way taxes are 66% of the gross salary.

[Kiro]

Social security fees are added on top of gross salary (and normally not visible on your payslip) so it's not a tax per se but still a cost for the company.

[t0mas88]

That's not just taxes, he/she is including pension, healthcare etc. on top of not just employee but also employer taxes.

[chongli]

Since the pension is mandatory it’s essentially a tax to pay for a government provided pension. Same goes for everything else.

[ur-whale]

> No way taxes are 66% of the gross salary.

In EU countries, there are many taxes that do not carry the official name "tax".

Much easier that way to get the people to swallow the pill.