[sdeep27]

To point out the absurdity of this study using only 31 users with varying degrees of other types of drug use, as well as measuring some highly subjective metric, let me offer some purely anecdotal evidence that has a bigger sample size. I can name more than 31 rappers (try me) that have heavy, long-term cannabis use that have fast "speech timing", high "vocal quality", and low "vocal effort" compared to the general population.

[ZoomZoomZoom]

So? It just shows that rapping might be an effective prevention therapy for this supposed effect.

[fighterpilot]

It doesn't show that at all. It could mean that that profession selects people who are the best in the world at those things, and cannabis is entirely coincidental.

[howaboutnope]

> You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.

-- Bill Hicks

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Well, supposed effective prevention for the supposed effect.

[SquishyPanda23]

> let me offer some purely anecdotal evidence that has a bigger sample size

That is not how science works.

And a study isn't absurd just because you don't like its conclusions.

[hutzlibu]

"To point out the absurdity of this study using only 31 users with varying degrees of other types of drug use, as well as measuring some highly subjective metric, "

This is the reason he does not like the study.

[SquishyPanda23]

That is the reason they gave publicly, not the reason they don't like the study.

The study used participants without a history of other drug use.

And having the effect appear with only 31 randomly sampled users means the effect is easy to detect. This is a normal number of participants for this sort of study.

You see this sort of motivated reaction to a study every time there is one that triggers a population.

[hutzlibu]

" You see this sort of motivated reaction to a study every time there is one that triggers a population. "

This is true, but in both directions.

Because unlike you said, they actually only tested 31 cannabis users against a controll group of 40. And found that maybe subtle differences exist.

"Speech samples were collected from a carefully described cohort of 31 adults with a history of cannabis use (but not use of illicit stimulant drugs) and 40 non-drug-using controls."

"Subtle differences in speech timing, vocal effort, and voice quality may exist between cannabis and control groups, however data remain equivocal"

[SquishyPanda23]

> they actually only tested 31 cannabis users against a controll group of 40

This is exactly like I said. In fact nothing you say contradicts anything I've said, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Adding more participants would measure the same subtle difference with increasing precision, but it's unclear what the point of that would be.*

The next logical step is to look further into voice effects, since the voice effect (along with the similar motor effects) are just easily measurable proxies for other changes going on in the brain.

Generally, if one's criticism of a study uses only concepts you learn about in the first day of intro to statistics (e.g. "correlation does not imply causation" or "there are only N participants"), then chances are pretty low that one has discovered a serious flaw that was missed by the authors and reviewers.

*We can get into a wider discussion about power here, but that tends to be pretty subtle and nothing at all about the power of the study merits it being called absurd.

[hutzlibu]

"nothing at all about the power of the study merits it being called absurd. "

Well, I have not read the paper in detail, because I do not want to buy it. So I would not claim it to be absurd in its whole. But what I can read is that the title of it makes a factual statement, while in the text you find the word "maybe". So "absurd" might be fitting for that.

And 31 is a really, really low number, for the goal:

"The aim of this study was to investigate speech in individuals with a history of recreational cannabis use compared to non-drug-using healthy controls. "

Like others have said, there is a strong influence of subculture speech patterns.

Have 10 rastafarie influenced people in the group and sure you will notice difference in the speech pattern. And difference does not necessarily mean "worse". I would have to read the paper to judge what they exactly meassured. And of course, how much the "recreational use" of the person involved was. Because intuitivly: sure, a person smoking 10+ joints a day speaks different, if at all, compared to the normal person.

[tootahe45]

You mean rappers who are likely faking their drug use as they often do with their use of firearms, expensive jewellery and cars.

[jjj123]

You think rappers are faking smoking weed?

[TillE]

Some people definitely believe that because they've had bad experiences with weed (paranoia etc), it's not a fun drug.

Too many people are getting ultra-stoned instead of enjoying it like you would half a bottle of wine.

[tootahe45]

Faking is probably the wrong word. Just bragging about doing things they don't actually do.